Sazmining Podcast Episode 39: Kent Halliburton on the Beginnings of a Revolutionary Company

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Synopsis:

In this episode of The Sazmining Podcast, Will speaks with Kent Halliburton, COO of Sazmining Inc. They discuss the story of Sazmining, current trends in Bitcoin, Sazmining's business model, and more.

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Will Szamosszegi: Hence welcome. This is an episode that [00:00:30] is long overdue. I've been waiting to get you on because I think that out of every single person that I've ever met in my entire life, you've got one of the most fascinating stories, backgrounds, and every single day I wake up, I honestly feel very grateful to have the opportunity to work with someone like you. So welcome to the podcast. 

Kent Halliburton: Wow. Well, that's quite the intro will, uh, and I have to say, I'm excited to be here. I feel like this is a, a special opportunity to, to share a lot more about SA mining itself in our conversation [00:01:00] today. And I feel likewise, man, I, I wake up every day and I'm excited to get to work and what we're building is just something so cool and excited for us to have an opportunity to share that. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, well, I mean, just for, for everyone out there listening to really like talk about the dynamic and how Ken and I came to working together, we had been introduced through, through a mutual friend, um, be north engine. He had been, and currently is the host of the solar Maverick podcast. He's now one of the new company advisors. I just saw him the other day [00:01:30] actually in DC and was thanking him for putting us in touch because it's just worked out extremely well. But I mean, really Ken, I I'm open to taking the conversation in any way possible. I know that we're doing a lot of exciting things with SA mining, but I think backgrounds might be in order if, uh, we wanna start there fully 

Kent Halliburton: Agreed and you know, I've listened to all your podcasts and, you know, you mentioned veno and that's actually how we got in touch is through a podcast episode that you were doing with him, but you know, in all the podcasting that, that you've done and all the guests you've brought on, I've never heard [00:02:00] you tell your story, how you got to the point of founding SA mining and what, what occurred before I, I stepped in and started helping. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, well, I'm, I'm happy to, to dive into the story, uh, how, how far back you want to go? I mean, probably, uh, not when I was in diapers, but uh, I'm, I'm happy to start wherever, wherever you think it makes sense, actually. You know what I think that I've, I've always, ever since, like I was a young kid, just been very fascinated in how the world works. A lot of times I felt like [00:02:30] I was kind of weird in a sense as a kid, because I would always just be asking question, being like, oh, why are things being done this way? And just having ideas, many of which, uh, you know, don't necessarily make too much sense, but when you're always asking questions, you kind of see a new thread that might not be as obvious to, if you didn't ask that question. And so I had always been entrepreneurial because of that going and seeing different ways that things could be done starting small businesses from the time I was really in, in elementary school, [00:03:00] actually even just going like shoveling snow, like selling baked goods, just doing many little ventures. 

Will Szamosszegi: And that kind of built the foundation that when I went to college, I went and started my first actual venture or what I could, what would be considered an actual venture, which was building a social networking app, particularly for college students. So if you were, it was called Turna and if you were a college student on Nell's campus, for example, you could go onto the app and see what events were happening. So just kind of helped [00:03:30] keep you plugged in. And I had done that with just money that I had earned from previous businesses, fully bootstrap, not necessarily a high budget, uh, production, but with a $5,000 budget was able to get a product to market, get launched across a number of different campuses and build a product that was quite compelling. I mean, it, it was similar to Yik Y and some of these other social networking apps, but was getting decent usage on the campuses where we had launched. 

Will Szamosszegi: And [00:04:00] so, because of that, I was wondering, okay, what am I gonna do next in my career? I could either go and try and raise a next venture around for the social networking app, or I could go into this exciting area of crypto. And as everyone on this podcast who who's listening right now, they've probably taken that dive down and, and really seen what, how transformative this technology is. But at the time there are just bits and pieces that I could see that this is going to fundamentally [00:04:30] shape society. It's like internet being able to work on the internet in the early days. So all that said, I made a decision to go and pursue the route going and starting says mining, instead of going and trying to take this company through a venture round. And that is really what led up to, to the birth of SA mining. <laugh> um, not sure if you want me to pause there or anything. Uh, I know that that I've, I've actually never had the chance to share that on a, on a podcast or an episode. I know that this is your episode Kent, but, uh, [00:05:00] you know, I, I'm glad you, you asked the question there. 

Kent Halliburton: Yeah, no, it's, uh, it's great to hear your background. And also for me, you know, I've heard snippets, uh, of it, but I haven't heard it in one, one fill story. I think that I would be curious to hear, I, I know that you got bit by the proverbial crypto bug and deciding to shift from your social app, but I'd love to hear it just more about the early days of SA mining and why you chose like the Bitcoin mining side of things, instead of some other area [00:05:30] of what's now known as web three. 

Will Szamosszegi: So there are a couple of reasons that came to mind like right off the bat. Uh, the big one initially was just understanding when you understand how the blockchain works. When we're talking about blockchain technology and these different types of protocols, like proof of work, proof of stake, you realize that mining is absolutely fundamental to everything. I mean, without mining and proof of work, there is no Bitcoin and all the things that all the big pointers talk about and, and all the visions that [00:06:00] we have for the world and for society that doesn't happen without the mine. So miners it's, it's the underlying layer. And I also saw a big opportunity with what was happening in the mining industry at its core. When you're looking at the industry from first principles, you realize you need sheep energy, and you need an efficient system, a well run operation. 

Will Szamosszegi: And I saw that at that time in, in 2017, when I was really diving into this deep that you had the world of crypto and, and mining, and [00:06:30] then you had everything else, you know, you had energy, you had the traditional financial services, and there was no way to really bridge that gap. They were like two different worlds almost. And so I saw an opportunity to really put SaaS mining in the center of that and allow really help be the bridge between the institutional world and the energy sector and the whole mining industry and the big players in the mining world. And that was the Genesis of the idea that we ran with and helped us bootstrap the company, get some initial early capital to get [00:07:00] the first facility up and running very small scale, but given us the time to build relationships in the industry, meet other people and additionally bootstrap through consult. So it helped us get the foot in the door in the industry, which is obviously a very important step if you're trying to build something of value. 

Kent Halliburton: Absolutely well, that's, uh, that's fascinating. And then I think just to share a little bit about myself, I mean, you've mentioned my background, but I think it's because of my background that we have such a, a great working [00:07:30] relationship because I, I definitely appreciate that like entrepreneurial spirit, that team curiosity that you bring. And so I discovered SaaS mining by podcast that you were on a solar podcast, and I knew Benno loosely through the solar industry, which is sort of my first career. And so going back a little bit, I, I had grown up on the Oregon coast on a farm, a cranberry farm of all places, and both my parents that were small business owners. So kind of always had an entrepreneurial effort, [00:08:00] but also was really attracted, I would say to like philosophical matters, just starting from like a, a young age. I was keenly interested in all sorts of philosophical pursuits. 

Kent Halliburton: And it led me to college where I did computer engineering really was, had a focus actually on networking at that point. And then when I got out of college, actually, I just got fascinated by solar, just the decentralized nature of it, and the ability to change a lot when it came to empowering people to produce their own energy, to help with climate [00:08:30] change. And that drove a career that ultimately led to, you know, gave me the foundation for wanting to be in the Bitcoin mining space and that career, you know, I had a lot of responsibility. I was working for a publicly traded company. We do emerges and acquisitions. I was in charge of both the software and the sales organization with like a hundred million dollar target. And there was a leadership change and I always had a dream. I have a very distant relative that in the thirties and forties was a, uh, [00:09:00] a famous adventure traveler, like one of the first, his name was Richard Halliburton. 

Kent Halliburton: And I'd grown up with these books as a kid and seeing these pictures. And I was just like, you know, at some point in my life, I gotta go see the world. And this guy, Richard Halliburton did, it was like the, you know, was being ushered into like Saudi Arabia and by the, the king and flown around to all these ancient sites and swimming the Panama canal. And anyway, just doing all these adventures. And I just, that was stuck with me. And so getting burnt out, uh, in my solar career [00:09:30] changing leadership, and I was just like, this is the perfect time I'm gonna regret myself if I don't just push off and go have some adventures in life and see the world. And that was quite an inspiring thing that taught me a lot about different cultures and how they see the world ultimately led to living in Portugal with my, uh, Portuguese wife, who I met along my travels. 

Kent Halliburton: And then eventually has brought me here to Peru, which is, this is actually the, the Amazon at my back window here, which I know sounds really [00:10:00] exotic, but it's just sort of the way that life is, has turned out because of my, my wife's work has brought us here. So all that is, is to say that, um, around 2015 towards the end of 2015 is when I sort of got bit by the crypto bug and I was looking into it and I just got fascinated. It seemed to weave together the decentralized power structure issues that I was interested in with, with solar. I could see an angle with climate change coming down the pike. I could see philosophically how people having, [00:10:30] uh, control of their own money was gonna be very disruptive and revolutionary. And I tried my hand at a couple entrepreneurial efforts when I arrived in Portugal in 2016, and I couldn't make much traction happen there. And I started to see this intersection between renewables, where I came from and, and Bitcoin mining. And so I was sort of looking for an angle, starting to talk to people in the, the mining industry. I heard you on a podcast. And I was like, wow, this guy seemed sharp and gets it, like, let me just reach out. And so [00:11:00] one thing led to another and, and you said, Hey, why, why don't you come help us be an, an energy advisor? And that was sort of how we started our, our adventure together. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, no, it's, it's incredible. And I mean, the stories and the life that, that you've lived up until this point, it's incredible. Like just the fact that you're, you know, in the jungle right now, taking this call while also being the chief operating officer of a company, dealing with energy directly, your background coming from solar and then Bitcoin [00:11:30] mining. You're a very unique individual. I do have to say <laugh> 

Kent Halliburton: Well, uh, I, I will take that as a compliment. Uh, although sometimes maybe it's not, but, uh, but yes, I, uh, I do, uh, pinch myself sometimes the life I lead and I, and I think it's a function of just not being satisfied. If I were to put my finger on it with living a standard life, I've always put personal growth and development ahead of everything else, because I think that that leads to the, to a life well lived. And so I feel extremely [00:12:00] fortunate because it's not only that I'm living here at the moment in Peru, which this is, you know, temporary, but I'm also in a position of SA mining that I feel like is perfectly situated coming from my education, my philosophical leanings, and, and then my skill set to be able to, you know, help help manage the internal operations for SaaS mining. 

Will Szamosszegi: And I know that you and I, we have, we talk every day and a lot of times we'll know that we'll be working on trying to get different things done, but our conversations always go [00:12:30] towards like a philosophical bent. And I really, I wouldn't even know where to start here, but, uh, just, I mean, coming to the top of mind right now is you've shaped my thinking a lot in regards to society and humanity and how we relate to energy. And I think the way that you talk about it is fascinating when you put it in the context of Bitcoin. So, I mean, could you just kind of talk about why you're very passionate about Bitcoin mining in particular and what you're seeing coming from the renewable background into mining and [00:13:00] how that plays out, uh, in society? 

Kent Halliburton: Boy, that's a, that's a broad question, but yes, I am extremely passionate about it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I am somebody that is, has a strong belief, and I think it's backed up by the science. Although a lot of people debate it, that we are having humanities, having a large impact on our climate and it is changing things. And I see Bitcoin as the best hope we have for averting major issues for the future. So that's kind of my core thesis is [00:13:30] wanting to better humanity. And I think there's a couple of different angles coming from solar that I bring to the table. One is they're extremely analogous industries actually. And I think that maybe I'm just a little ahead of the curve from other folks in the solar industry, just because I had the time and the space through my travels to really go deep and understand Bitcoin. 

Kent Halliburton: But I think that a lot of people in the solar industry actually specifically the solar industry are gonna come around to this. Because if you look at solar panels, they are discrete [00:14:00] units, similar to Bitcoin ASIC minors, and each individual panel generates power, each individual ASIC, uh, Bitcoin minor harnesses power, right? So one, it produces one consumes, but they're both decentralized disruptive technologies that are, have been creating mass change. And so when I was in the solar industry, a lot of days I would wake up and I would feel like I'm tilting at windmills against the utilities to try to figure out like how the solar systems could come online for the customers and the [00:14:30] businesses that we were trying to serve. And I feel that that exact same thing is playing out here within the legislative bodies of the government with, you know, Bitcoin mining. 

Kent Halliburton: So those parallels are fascinating, but then I also see on a more human level that there's something quite fascinating as well. So one of the favorite parts of, of my job in our sales organization was when I, I had the opportunity to go to a homeowner that had just had a solar system install, and we got to flip the, flip, the switch and actually energize it because [00:15:00] as opposed, most people probably don't know this, that haven't been through a process of solarizing their home, but you cannot actually turn your system on once it's on the roof until your local utility has approved it. Right? So here, you've got like the, this fancy Ferrari in the car and you've got the keys in your hand, but you're not allowed to drive it. So there's this like real pin up thing that happens with customers. But once they're finally given the approval, they can go flip the switch. 

Kent Halliburton: And it was always fun to be there because there was something extremely empowering that you could just see happen in a [00:15:30] customer's eyes when they could see their meter spin backward and they could tangibly experience producing their own power. And I think that there's, that analogous experience occurs here with Bitcoin mining when you mine your own Bitcoin, right? When you own your own rig, it's like the, the Bitcoin that you've acquired through that process. It's more valuable to you personally than the Bitcoin that you could've purchased for the same dollars. If you would've gone on to an exchange and purchased them, there's something about that pride of ownership that occurs through Bitcoin [00:16:00] mining that you can't get by going to an exchange. And I think a lot of people are going to wake up to that reality, but on the, and I know I'm talking quite a bit here, but on the bigger picture, what I see is that Bitcoin, what people like to say a lot is that Bitcoin is the, um, the energy consumer of last resort. 

Kent Halliburton: You know, it's always gonna go to where the lowest cost power is. People don't understand that because they don't understand that the, the dynamics of the Bitcoin network, which just drive competition for mining, right? So those dynamics necessarily define the [00:16:30] business economics that say, I need the cheapest power. I can get to stay profitable as I'm competing with all the other mining rates. So I really see that basic fundamental, like point of education has not reached mass awareness yet because the Bitcoin network is multivariate. It takes a long time to get your head wrapped around it. And, and we're, you, we're such a soundbite culture that to get your head wrapped around, like actually how and network works and like visualize it, it takes a long time, but Bitcoin mining is always gonna go for that [00:17:00] energy of last resort. And I think in the long term, we're gonna need to electrify our grid to, uh, to offset climate change, reduce our, our carbon output. 

Kent Halliburton: Like there's no doubt amongst any side of the spectrum that, that sees that climate change is an issue. And the only way pragmatically to do that is to actually overbuild renewables because of their intermittency. And then have some base load that quite likely is, is either a choice between natural gas, which has carbon. And I think we should try to reduce nuclear [00:17:30] energy, which is probably the, uh, the, the most upfront, uh, technology, cuz we actually have it as tangible or batteries, but we need some way to stabilize and regulate the grid. And then when there's overproduction, that's where Bitcoin mining comes in. So I see the three of those components forming a Trinity to actually electrify our grid where we've got renewables, whatever the, the base supply is going to be, whether that's coming from a storage solution, a nuclear, natural gas, and then Bitcoin mining [00:18:00] as the third leg that stops up the excess because in that Trinity there's always gonna be excess. 

Kent Halliburton: And so that's how we make the grid efficient in the really long term future. I can actually see Bitcoin mining driving the rear reation of land. So I think of, you know, some of the component costs of Bitcoin mining is actually the land itself that you're gonna build a facility on, right? So where's the lowest cost land in the world. Well, the land nobody wants, which is deserted, right? So we could logically, [00:18:30] you know, once this thing gets up and going in the distant future, we could logically integrate Bitcoin mining with renewable energy and batteries and overproduce a capacity in these middle and nowhere places connected to our satellite internet connections to be mining anywhere in the world. And then that could actually provide the basis for, you know, communities developing around that. It could be actually a way that we shift how we organize ourselves societally in the really long term. Anyway, that's, that's pretty heady [00:19:00] far out there stuff though. And way, way further than where we are right now. That's that's 20 years I think. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, no, I, I absolutely love it. And I, I completely agree with everything that you're saying. And you touched on so many important points there, uh, that it's like hearing it all put together is, is definitely a lot, you know, so, I mean, just going back to what you mentioned earlier, when you sell a, when you were in solar, right. And you sold the solar system and you could see the person's face light on all of a sudden it's, it's [00:19:30] that moment of sovereign, I think is a good way to put it where they have their own solar system on their house now. And now all of a sudden they realize that they're harnessing the energy of the sun to be able to live, to be able to power the refrigerator or all their appliances. And they're not reliant on the grid for energy. And I think that you made a really good point because you touched on how we're bringing that to Bitcoin mining. 

Will Szamosszegi: And that that's something that people, I mean, [00:20:00] don't yet today have, because solar is obviously further along, but when you can own your own minor, you you're predicting that people are going to have that type of a eyes lighting up. Like, Hey, I'm creating my own Bitcoin, like my own digital asset that, you know, I, I can go and I can do whatever I want with it. I have Bitcoin. I can go, I turn that into dollars. I can borrow against it. I can hold it. And you were the one at that point that created it, just like how the solar purchaser is the one that was [00:20:30] creating the round 

Kent Halliburton: Electricity. Absolutely. Yeah. And it, and I think it's not just that I'm predicting that will occur, but you can see it already with the individuals at our Bitcoin mining. And you can see it by the skin and the game approach that they have. Most of the large scale Bitcoin minors that I've run into, started out at a hobby level, right. They mine their own Bitcoin. They felt that sense of empowerment, uh, that comes with, you know, basically having their own money printer. I know Bitcoin's not recognized as, [00:21:00] as money in the us. It's a, it's a commodity, but in essence, a money printer right. Of, of Bitcoin and generating that, that revenue and realizing the opportunity there, almost everybody in that space that's become larger, did that by mining to begin with and then just compounding their gains over and over again, to buy more mining equipment, more mining rigs, you know, learning the, the cycles of the mining industry and becoming better and better at. So I, I will not be surprised. And in fact, we can see this with competitors running [00:21:30] a similar business model that once people get a taste for it, once their first mining rate is paid off, you know, they're coming back to the table to buy another one and another one to build their, their own passive income stream, outside money, right. Money that's outside of anybody's control. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. And I mean, in today's world, I think that that becomes so much more apparent. I mean, Bitcoiners were talking about it years ago before, you know, COVID and all the money printing, but we've had a front row seat really to see, okay, money can be printed. [00:22:00] Assets can be seized. And Bitcoin gives someone like it's like apex property rights. It's like you have the ability now because of this technology to really custody your own Bitcoin custody, your own property and not have to worry about protecting it. I mean, if you have a bunch of gold, you have a billion dollars of gold, it's gonna cost a lot to protect that versus a billion dollars of Bitcoin. You could hold that billion dollars in your head with the, with the seed race. I mean, it's, it's [00:22:30] wild. And I think that that's something that a lot of people around the world haven't really realized yet when we're talking about property, it's not just classified as property from a governmental point of view, you're talking about the best property ever invented by the human race. 

Kent Halliburton: It truly is. You know, I think a lot of people as the world is digitized. You, you know, those of us that have grown up in a more digitized world, I think can intuitively understand that. But I think that, unfortunately, it's just the reality of what people have experienced that, that [00:23:00] grew up before that digitization makes it harder to understand how value itself can be digitized, but it's a hundred percent true. You know, the world that we've grown up with online is going through a fundamental shift. And, and what I find fascinating about that, that shift of, of having actual sovereignty of your money. And I think other things will be built out off of Bitcoin itself, but having that sovereignty requires a shift, right? Like private key management is the fundamental [00:23:30] obstacle to overcome for anybody looking to acquire Bitcoin, because we are used to a world where we've got a username and password. And if we have problems, we reach out to whoever holds our username and password for help. And that's not the world of Bitcoin. The world of Bitcoin is you've got the password and it's you yourself. And you, you know, that's it <laugh> yeah, that's 

Will Szamosszegi: It, there's no like, forgot my mother's maiden name or like, you know, <laugh> 

Kent Halliburton: No. And, and so it forces this level of accountability that [00:24:00] online we've never had to experience. And I think that we've heard a lot of horror stories from people losing their Bitcoin or, or somebody stealing their Bitcoin. And I think it's fundamentally born from a naivety about what it means to be sovereign and what it means to be accountable and, and hold your own key. And as much as, you know, there's user interface, things that have gotten much better with that, uh, over the years that I've been in Bitcoin, I don't see how we're ever gonna remove that last point [00:24:30] of private key management, because that is what allows people to hold their own Bitcoin. And that is the main difference, you know, gold is outside of the system too, right? So it's outside money as well. But the, the key feature is different between Bitcoin and gold that I see is that gold can be confiscated. It's physical. Somebody else can take it from you. Bitcoin cannot be. That means that you, as a holder of Bitcoin, ultimately execute voluntary action. If [00:25:00] you're going to send that to somebody else, I mean, you might do voluntary action at the point of a gun and make that decision. But at the end of the day, you have to actually do it yourself. You know, you, nobody else can come in and actually take your, take your Bitcoin, cuz the knowledge is in your head and it can't be extracted except for, from you giving it. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. I hearing you talk about that kind of reminds me of probably not gonna say the, the terminology properly, but it's like the $5 wrench attack, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative> so you could [00:25:30] have all this stuff, all this property, but if someone comes over with a $5 wrench and takes you out and takes all your stuff, then it's the economically prudent thing to do that. It's like, okay, $5 is for a wrench and now I can go have all this stuff. It's if you don't have a way to protect your stuff, then you're at risk of it being confiscate. Obviously gold is, uh, is a great example. You talk about the term inside, outside money. We've had the chance to talk about that, but I think it'd be great for you to just talk about what the, what you mean when you say inside money versus [00:26:00] outside money. And also why you think that it's important to understand the distinction between the two. 

Kent Halliburton: I love that terminology and it's just something that, that came up that I discovered at least in the last couple weeks I was reading a piece, uh, from Zon PZA I think is how you pronounce his name from credit SW he put out a memo to investors at credit, SW talking about how we were going through a Bretton woods, uh, three moment. And I don't have all the details on the mechanics [00:26:30] of Brenton woods one and two. But if we are living through Beton woods three, you know, I can share a little bit about what the experience is here now from a monetary level. But the first two were, were points in time. Were the international community basically reshuffled the deck on what the global reserve asset would be. So loosely Brenton woods one was when the dollar was paid to a specific gold value. 

Kent Halliburton: And then all the other currencies throughout Europe were paid to the dollar. And so it meant [00:27:00] that the entire system was gold back in 1971, after printing money to fund like the Vietnam war. Ultimately the gold to dollar PAing was starting to get undone was starting to get broken and Nixon took us off the gold standard and that would be like the Bretton woods two moment. So that was the reshuffling of the, of the deck for currencies and Brenton Woods's three right now would be defined by another reshuffling of the deck. [00:27:30] And while we're going through that process, Zon proposed that there's a rush to outside money now, uh, gold being outside the control of any sovereign nation and Bitcoin as well, being outside the, the control of any sovereign nation versus inside money is money and monetary instruments that are controlled by state apparatus. So that's a core distinction is that, which is outside of control versus that, which is inside of the ability, uh, [00:28:00] for governments to control it. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. Hearing, hearing you talk through it. And I actually have only told this to a couple of people. So, um, I guess after I tell it right here, it's gonna be out there in the public, but um, ha have you first off, have you heard, uh, of Ray Dalio's book, the changing world order? Yeah. 

Kent Halliburton: It's it's, it's, it's one of those books that's on my growing stack to, uh, to chew through and read. I, I I've I've I've I've heard other people summarize it a bit and it's, it's fascinating. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. Well, I think that when it comes [00:28:30] to thinkers of understanding geopolitics finance, and then the decisions that are made in history and then trying to apply that to today, Ray Dalio is like the best at it. He's he can look at history, understand how all the actors interact and then make predictions and apply it to try and see how things are going to play out. And it would be way too long to try and summarize everything in the book. But the, the core argument that he's making is that we see this long pattern repeat over time of, [00:29:00] of global superpowers that will achieve reserve currency status. And that comes with certain benefits and it comes with obviously some detractors to, to their future success and growth. And he in the book is showing how in that system that you've outlined the us, we've enjoyed reserve currency status. 

Will Szamosszegi: We've been the dominant power and we've gone through Brett and woods one and two, and now we're going through a Breon woods three type moment. And so the [00:29:30] question is when you look at the world, what does it look like after the us? And we go into this next phase and a lot of people think, for example, China is gonna be the next world. Superpower Dalio is one of the people in that camp as a Bitcoin and someone really deep in, in the world that we're in. I, I am coming to the prediction that been saying for, uh, or thinking about for a while now is Bitcoin becoming that global reserve asset and becoming that global peg. And sometime in the future, [00:30:00] you know, countries, instead of pricing things and GDP and dollars are saying, Hey, I've got a, a GDP of 185,000 Bitcoin. And, and realizing that when you have grandchildren, they're gonna think it's ludicrous that everything used to be pegged to just a single country's currency that could be printed away. 

Will Szamosszegi: It's just a, a system that has a leaky hole in it. If you're going and you're sailing a ship and there's a massive hole in the bottom of your ship, you're gonna sink. And the funny thing is, is that's [00:30:30] what we're doing with the monetary system, cuz we've never had a currency, uh, or a technology that has allowed us to really close that loop, to patch up that hole in the ship. And um, and I think that the world that we're living in today right now is, is a world that is expediting the adoption of Bitcoin and expediting the understanding of the global population to how the monetary system works and what that really means for your money and for your purchasing [00:31:00] power. So that all goes back to your inside, outside state talk. And I think that that's very relevant because you have outside money with Bitcoin that is far superior to gold. It's just not widely understood yet by everyone around the world. Yeah. 

Kent Halliburton: I, I would agree with that in the, the thesis, as I understand it from Dalio makes a lot of sense to me. I don't wonder, you know, if outside money becomes the inside money over time or if outside money just we stop drop, drop those [00:31:30] terms and just have like, that's just our money. You know, we no longer have to bifurcate because those other things just stop making sense. I think that there's a, um, historical angle that I think takes a people a long time to get their head wrapped around with Bitcoin. And I think Ray Dalio is one of those people. That's, that's great at, uh, as sort of understanding those historicals from like one lens from another lens. I think that there's like, and this is the one that sort of, I focus on more, which is human empowerment and [00:32:00] sovereignty and, and freedom because I believe that we're born with an innate desire to live as free as possible up until the point we reach contact with somebody else, right? 

Kent Halliburton: Like we can't allow our freedom to extend it to somebody else's boundaries. But I think that we're, we are born with this innate desire to live in a more free, uh, capacity. And I think if you look at the, the last major invention that came along, that I think has similar, uh, impacts on society, it would be the printing [00:32:30] press. And I know this sounds very radical to most people that are considering these ideas for the first time. I, I think I've probably shared this with you before, but if you look at what occurred with the printing press at that point in time, when the printing press, I mean, it was actually invented first in China, but uh, we call it invented first in Europe. Uh Berg's um, but the, the printing press that arose there in Europe at that point in time, the Catholic church was the primary force, uh, holding control in Europe. 

Kent Halliburton: And it was both political and religious mixed [00:33:00] together. Well, the ideas that were kept sacred within the Catholic church at that point were allowed to disseminate once the printing press, uh, started to go out and those ideas ultimately led to the Protestant reformation and eventually the modern nation state, as we think of it today, we think of the nation state as being in perpetuity, but really it's an invention of the last 400 years, the modern nation state is it before that we organized ourselves in different ways, but eventually all that led [00:33:30] to, uh, the separation of, of church and state, which the very first example of that was the United States. Right? So we look now, I think everybody that lives like in a, a Western democracy looks at the collision of church and state and just thinks that that is ridiculous, right? Like we could never imagine a religion and state coming together to hold power together. 

Kent Halliburton: Like that just seems archaic and, and ridiculous. And it's my thesis that [00:34:00] we're living through this separation of money and state and just like people that came probably 20, maybe even 50 years after the printing press had no idea what was occurring while the printing press dynamic, that the influence of the printing press were influencing society, I think were in the same boat. I think that people don't understand that we are on a path in trajectory right now to separate money and state, like that's what Bitcoin does. And it does it by forcing people to ask a very simple question. And if you're [00:34:30] curious like you are, and I am, it leads you to inevitable conclusions. And that question is what is money? And the more you ask that question and the more you're intellectually honest about answering that question, you ultimately come to the conclusion that it's ridiculous and archaic for our nation states to be in control of money printers. 

Kent Halliburton: There's not one time in human history where that's not been abused. It's like the, the ring of sor in Lord of the rings, right? That like whoever has the ring can't, can't manage to control it. Like there's [00:35:00] no time in human history where that's not been abused. And every time it's abused, it's at the cost of the local population because it's the local populations who don't understand the mechanics of the money for money printing that suffer the, the cost of inflation. So they print more money. The pool of money increases. Well, that means prices go up. That means workers have to work longer to be able to acquire the same amount of money to continue to live the life that they were living before [00:35:30] the money was printed. It's really that simple. And so every time we're, we're printing more money, even though we think we're handing it out to people that are deserving and all this at the end of the day, it's just a hidden tax that all of us bear in increased prices. 

Kent Halliburton: And I think right now, just like you were saying, like the world is, is at this point where it's waking up to this reality. I think specifically the American people are experiencing this right now, where they have their government telling them that, no, this is, this is nothing to do with money. We're printing [00:36:00] prices are going up because these equal corporations, uh, because the oil companies, because this war that's going on in the Ukraine and at the end of the day, it's quite simple. Like whatever we print more money, it causes inflation. It may not happen like directly. There's lots of other externalities that are influencing it. It is a complicated thing. But if you, if you abstract out the middle part of the process, printing vast sums of money, inevitably leads to price increases at some point down the future. 

Will Szamosszegi: Like, yeah. <laugh>, it's, [00:36:30] it's funny when you think about it too, cuz I, I pose the question like, Hey, if the government goes and gives everyone stimulus, right. And gives everyone a billion dollars. If I give everyone a billion dollars, we don't all live, go and live the life of a billionaire. The dollars that were just printed are worth far less and everything is going to have to be repriced in the market to reflect the amount of dollars in that market. I can't have a, a pizza pie. And then all of a sudden like cut 30 more slices and say, [00:37:00] Hey, we've got 30 times as much pizza. Like the money is just representing the value that the society produces. So if I have some dollars, I can work for those dollars and then pay people to do things and they earn dollars and then they can go. 

Will Szamosszegi: But that's just all energy in society. It takes energy to get things and make things. If people don't make things, then there are no things for everyone else. You know? So we saw these two, these two things happening simultaneously, [00:37:30] one printing, tremendous amounts of money. And then two, everyone being locked inside and not being able to go and produce things. So I mean the supply chain constraints are obviously they're gonna be supply chain constraints. It is just like, and I mean, I can assign like, you know, particular reasons and rationalizations for each. And I'm not saying that those are incorrect, but I like when you go one layer deeper, you realize, oh, okay, this is why this is happening. And these are just inevitable. [00:38:00] Just like how, when a government, as you said, gets the power to print an unlimited amount of money that gets abused all throughout history. You can see it almost every single Fiat currency has completely failed, has gone to zero. And even the best performing current Fiat currencies, like the pound have lost over 99.5% of their purchasing power. The no brainer is okay, well you don't want to be holding or sailing in the leaky ship. You know, you want something solid [00:38:30] and that has solid foundation and more people are coming to the realization that that solid foundation is Bitcoin. 

Kent Halliburton: Yeah. Agreed. I, I think that this is where, uh, it comes back to the proof of work, uh, versus the existing system. I actually have come to a point of, uh, as much as the existing system, I, I can get frustrated with like on a surface level, I've actually come to a point of like deep contentment with it because it's necessary for us to go through this process. If you look at the incentives, [00:39:00] right. To me, it's absolutely inevitable that the money printer is going to be abused. You think about it and a democratically elected system, right? The politicians that get elected by the people are, are there to represent the voice of those people. If the voice of those people are starving, hungry, having problems, the politicians have an incentive to try to fix that. Right. And is it easier to somehow figure out how to acquire [00:39:30] more money to give these people that are gonna make them satisfied? 

Kent Halliburton: Or is it easier to tell those people, Hey, I don't have any money. You guys are gonna have to work together and figure this out. Always it's gonna be easier to go lean on the money printer, right? Yeah. Like people, everybody loves to receive more money than to hear a message that we don't have, the money you guys are gonna have to, to it out. You know, like that's just not a, how a politician, how politics work. So it's ultimately like a function of, of all of us that we've [00:40:00] created this system. And now, like you're saying for the first time, we're, we're waking up to this reality and this is where like we come back to proof of work and even like Bitcoin mining, because it took me a very long time to understand this gold is beautiful and humanity is valued for a long time, but really why it's valued. 

Kent Halliburton: It is because of the amount of time and energy it's taken to actually acquire it, refine it, get it into a usable form. It's not actually so much that [00:40:30] physical form that we're in love with. It's so much as the work that we all know intuitively went into producing it. So if I hand you a gold coin, it actually represents the value of all that energy and effort that went into it. And if you, if you compare that gold coin that I've handed you to, let's say the equivalent in dollars, you know, I hand you a small stack of, of a hundred dollars bills for that equivalent gold coin. You know, that they're just tangibly different because [00:41:00] it's a hard cast system, the energy that went into creating that goal versus it's, it's a group of, I don't even know how many people are behind the federal reserve. Let's call it a group of 12 or eight to sit around in a reserve in a room and decide how many zeros show up in the, uh, the database that day. Right? Like, 

Will Szamosszegi: Oh yeah. I mean, 

Kent Halliburton: We know intuitively at like a human level, there's something wrong with these compared to this. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. I mean, just you talk about incentives and I mean, just thinking about that for one second, [00:41:30] I think that everyone who who's in fine answer knows about the fed. They understand like mechanically what's going on to a certain degree, but how ridiculous is it when you think about a group of roughly 12 people who were not elected go into a room and decide the fate for the global economy and really like resource allocation in a large part of how society's gonna be run a group of 12 non-elected people going to a room, make a decision on rates and people are trying [00:42:00] to figure out, okay, what are they gonna decide? Oh, well he wore purple this day or like his ties purple. So maybe so that's a sign that rates are increasing, you know, it's just like, it's ridiculous how much human energy and intellectual capital is going into just speculation and trying to figure out, okay, well, how am I going to recover or plan for this decision versus that decision rather than, and this is the powerful thing that with Bitcoin is the monetary policy. 

Will Szamosszegi: The, the governance is completely transparent, [00:42:30] you know exactly how many Bitcoin have been produced, how they were produced, you know, how many are gonna be produced in the future all the way out to year 2140. And no one can change that there's no group that can suddenly say, oh yeah, we're gonna expand the monetary supply by 85% in the next couple of years. Like, and no one could have predicted something like that. But with Bitcoin, if someone wanted to, they can't, they're incentivized to uphold the validity of the system. So [00:43:00] it's, it goes back to that phrase that Bitcoiners have, you know, don't trust, verify, that's how you fix the, the broken incentive. And the one last point that I do wanna make on this is that looking at the way that the system's run today, it's easy to attack. You know, there's lots of things that we can say, okay, well, it's very corrupt. 

Will Szamosszegi: It's awful. It needs to be put away when you go and look at the history of money and how we came to this system, it's pretty ingenious. I mean, you look at the world today, everything that's been built that doesn't happen without Fiat currency, what they've acted as, [00:43:30] as a technology up until now. Um, I mean, great medium of exchange, not a great store of value, acting as a unit, as an as account for the global society. It's important. And it's amazing what we've, uh, created, but now we just have better tech before the printing press. People didn't know as much, it was harder for information to spread before the internet, the printing press was not nearly as scalable. We're looking at a future technology that can be applied to money that can help. As you mentioned, separate, just have [00:44:00] church and state state were separated, separate, um, money in state. And it's kind of crazy that we're living through it right now and seeing all these announcements happening real time. Yeah. 

Kent Halliburton: It, it is absolutely insane. And I, I couldn't through it that more. I, I think what makes you and I particularly fortunate is realizing that we're, that we're living through this and that we have an opportunity to actually participate because it is a decentralized network. Like that was, that was something that, that I think we're [00:44:30] not used to dealing with decentralized entities. We'll, we'll put it that way. I think as, as humans, we're not. And I think it, it, that people don't understand about what people don't understand about Bitcoin is that there's no marketing department, right? There's no budget for PR there's, there's, there's nobody that individually speaks for the network, right? Yeah. No CEO, but there's no CEO. Right. So there's just a whole bunch of people like us that have, have sort of embraced and adopted it and are talking about it loosely, but it's [00:45:00] also what makes it so easy to pick on in the, in the media narratives, right? 

Kent Halliburton: Because there's no cohesive, like voice that's gonna stand up and, and spin a narrative. So it's sort of leaves it for those people that are curious enough to do the work and to do the research and to, to those people that adopt it early. Great, like there's more reward right. Than, uh, than those that, uh, take longer to come around to it. But I do see it as inevitable for that reason that you were talking about that it's just a superior form of technology. [00:45:30] And I see it, like you were saying, like, yeah, we can attack the current system all we want, but I see it as, this is just what we needed to go through evolutionarily in order for us to get to the next stage. And I think that Bitcoin represents the doorway to our next evolutionary stage. If you look at it, the printing press led to the modern nation state, very indirectly. 

Kent Halliburton: There's a lot of steps that happened along the way, but indirectly, that was the, the starting point that dissemination of knowledge that led to the modern nation state. I don't doubt for [00:46:00] one second. And I have no idea what it will be, but I don't doubt for one second, the separating money in state will lead to some different organizational structure for humanity. I can't ever pronounce his last name. Right. Uh, uh, but blo is this, this deep thinker in the space and he's been in crypto for a very long time. He did a wonderful series with Robert breed, love that that really had me thinking, but, but his polarity I think is, is right, is that he sees the future that we're going into as either centralized or decentralized. [00:46:30] And I think that those are the two poles that are fighting each other right now, is, are we going to move through a decentralized reality where people are more on an individual basis, more liberated and, uh, self sovereign, or are we going to go to a more, what I think of as dystopian future to where we give up our individual sovereignty to a centralized actor that, you know, stands over us and with little strings, uh, manages us. 

Kent Halliburton: And, and I know for one which environment I wanna live [00:47:00] in, uh, which is why we're, we're, we're here offering Bitcoin minors to, uh, to individuals, uh, powered by clean energy. But, you know, I think, I think it comes down to an individual basis on, on whether people want to step up to these sort of innate freedoms that, that we're born with and use crypto as that, or Bitcoin as that doorway through which we acquire them, or do they want to, to allow, you know, either by action or inaction, a centralized entity to control their life. 

Will Szamosszegi: [00:47:30] Yeah. And, and going off of that whole concept of centralization versus decentralization, it's such an important question. And we've seen how both systems play out with money. It seems like when it's centralized and governed in that type of a way, it just breaks. And you talk about the over printing and the devaluation of currencies, currencies fail. Lots of people suffer from that with a decentralized decision making process like Bitcoin, and it built in [00:48:00] with math and code, and can't be manipulated all of a sudden, you take away that capability to distort the price signals coming from that unit of account. You know, there was it one quadrillion Satoshis per Bitcoin, something like that. 

Kent Halliburton: Yeah. I don't have the unit, 

Will Szamosszegi: A lot of Satoshi per Bitcoin. Very, very, very 

Kent Halliburton: Decimal points. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A particular unit of account and it is incorruptible. And I think that that is just so important to have so [00:48:30] important to have that decentralization for it to continue to work. And I mean, bringing that to mining and what we were talking about earlier, that's, that's, what's so powerful about it. Now you have it decentralized, but that's one of the reasons why, um, when we're talking about it's important for individuals to mind and individuals to have that capability right now, for example, you can go into Coinbase, you can go into Binance and you can buy Bitcoin. There's no question about it. And it's incredible. All these exchanges have solved that problem and made Bitcoin accessible. But the big problem [00:49:00] right now is that with mining, it's very difficult for people to participate in that origination layer, just like how with gold, you can go and buy gold, but if you have the ability to actually mine it, then you're right there at the sovereignty level. 

Will Szamosszegi: And with Bitcoin mining, it's important to put miners in the hands of the people you coined the term money printer earlier, which I think is, is a very interesting way to look at, instead of having a group of 12 individuals in a back room, deciding how much money [00:49:30] is being printed, you can participate with your own money printer in this decentralized system and really build your own sovereignty, build your wealth and not be completely reliant on the Fiat system. It's a powerful concept. And then when you tie in that whole renewable energy aspect to it and realize that you're pushing forward, renewable energy, you're helping society harness energy in a more sustainable way. All of that ties together. And then you have something that [00:50:00] you get excited to wake up for in the morning. And, and you feel like you have the ability to move the needle forward and you're everyday actions. You could be tired. You could not want to get, go, normally go to work if on some of those days. But sometimes, sometimes you just realize you, you, you take a step back and you think, wow, I'm really improving the world and making society a better place. And I'm gonna work as hard as it takes to make that happen. 

Kent Halliburton: That's right. I, I think that's, uh, that's part of that decentralized oralized choice, um, right. [00:50:30] Is, is that the decision is quite stark, right? Would, would you rather trust math or would you rather trust the foibles of a group of people? And I, I know for myself, I trust math a whole lot more than I do, uh, a, a group of people. I mean, two plus two is four, right? Yeah. Like I don't, 

Will Szamosszegi: I'm not a calculator. You, you take, yeah. You put me against a T 83 calculator and I'm losing every single 

Kent Halliburton: Time. Yeah. It doesn't matter how many people, uh, go against that calculator. The calculator's always gonna win. And we're okay with that with calculators and computation, [00:51:00] we just haven't come to that when it comes to money. But it's, it's that simple. And what I see is that in the marketplace, if we're just to put Bitcoin out in the marketplace and say, okay, what's Bitcoin competing. It's a new form of money. That's emerging into society. What's its competition. Well, it's the base of a new monetary system, right? If it's a new emergent money, what's the current base of our current financial system, us dollar. Right. And what does mining do? Well, mining is responsible for the creation of new Bitcoin and for [00:51:30] securing the network, right? How does the us dollar do both right now? Well, the us dollar it's the responsibility for new, new dollars is controlled by the federal reserve. 

Kent Halliburton: And then what protects the us dollar? Well, some portion of the us military, right? So as an individual, if you are mining Bitcoin, you are literally decentralizing and helping to compete for a decentralized future by helping to, you know, software eating the world, the federal reserve, and at [00:52:00] least some portion of the us military system. And I'm not saying that we need to do anything different with our us military. I'm not saying that, but I'd love to see our us military standing for us citizens, much more than having anything to do with the us dollar. I think that would be a healthier world. 

Will Szamosszegi: I mean, just the way that you laid that out was absolutely perfect. I don't think I've actually ever heard someone laid out in that way. Just like step by step comparing. Okay. The, the us dollar, it's got the federal reserve deciding how much is being printed in the [00:52:30] military. And then Bitcoin, it's got the mining network and people who participate in the mining network are helping to support that. And you, anyone can participate. If, if they've got the ability to, you know, purchase minors, procure electricity run, the, the software thing is, is that that's difficult to do and learn for anyone. But thankfully now, you know, mining's being made more accessible and that's obviously the vision that we're working towards. It says mining, but I just think it's important for anyone, whether, if you're already involved in Bitcoin [00:53:00] and you're digesting a lot of the thoughts that like, you know, we're talking about right now, then the way for you to go one layer deeper is to really get involved on the mining. 

Will Szamosszegi: I mean, that's what, like, if you're in Bitcoin, you've benefited from it, you know, you, and you understand it and you're going to continue to benefit from it. But it, it's almost like having responsibility to help protect what it is that you've benefited for, what you've built and help protect that future for all the people to come, who haven't realized it yet. Like you, cause if, if you're understanding [00:53:30] this, then you're already at that point where you're down the rabbit hole, you've got the knowledge to build a good future in life for yourself. And that future it's important that not just you have that future, but every single person around 

Kent Halliburton: The world. Yeah. I think that there's, there's a philosophical awakening that I think people go through. If they stay intellectually curious with Bitcoin, it starts off. Uh, my favorite quote in, in Bitcoin is it's a revolution, uh, dressed up as a, get rich, quick scheme. Uh, I think that was a Naval Racon, uh, I'm [00:54:00] not sure who was the credit, uh, to that, but I'll give it to them, but is mine. But I think it's totally true. Almost everybody that comes to Bitcoin comes to it by way of trying to make money. It's once it's acquired. And it's why I personally think it's important to the best way to, to orange bill people is to give them a bit of Bitcoin, cuz then they start to pay attention to it and start to think about it and consider it. But then the next step is to move from owning it on some central custody solution to owning and managing your own private keys. 

Kent Halliburton: And then the next step [00:54:30] that I see is people saying, okay, I don't wanna have anybody stand in the way of my ability to send transactions. So I'm gonna run my own node. And then I'm part of the network. I'm enforcing the rules of the network. And then what I see people doing is that are, that are far enough down. This is not only do I want to run and enforce the rules of the network. I wanna hard on the network and I wanna secure it for not just a Bitcoin I own, but for the future. And by the way, this is crazy. It's the only way that you can actually put your Bitcoin to work [00:55:00] and earn yield on your Bitcoin, right? You can use your Bitcoin to purchase, uh, a mining rig that then returns you more Bitcoin than you've spent to acquire the, the mining rig. 

Kent Halliburton: Right? So in this way it becomes like a, a self report, uh, feedback loop, where you can put your Bitcoin to work, to secure the network and grow your Bitcoin holdings. And so that, I think that's why I'm super proud of what we've developed here, which I, I think is worth touching on a little bit as we come up on the, the top of the hour, which is a [00:55:30] platform that's the only one of its kind that makes Bitcoin mining accessible and powered by green energy, right? So we've got this green mandate that all of the facilities would develop will be powered by clean energy. So we're literally in conversations with people to so up that excess energy that renewables are having that are generating and we're allowing anybody, uh, to purchase a Bitcoin mining rig through us. We will host it, maintain it, take care of everything, we'll [00:56:00] sell everything to you at cost. 

Kent Halliburton: And then we'll just take a, a small portion of the rewards. That way our incentive is the same as yours, which is to make your, your mining rig produce as much Bitcoin as possible. So very, very simple approach to it. But there's nobody in the marketplace. That's offering this right now. And I can't, for me, it's shocking because it's such an obvious idea and I'm just glad that we're the first ones in the market with it. It, but yeah, it's, it's highly intuitive. And our approach was just trying to make it as easy as, as what people experience [00:56:30] when they sign up with a Netflix subscription. Right? So just within a few clicks, you have your mining, uh, rig it's up and going and you're receiving the Bitcoin directly. We don't touch the Bitcoin at all that you received all yours. And in this way, it's just, you know, if you would go out and purchase maybe a condo that you would flip for an Airbnb becomes a great passive income 

Will Szamosszegi: Stream. Yeah. And this is actually going to, um, I guess it ties to everything we've been talking about earlier, but it's like a new frontier. I [00:57:00] I'd say it's like re like an August real estate kind of like real estate on steroids in the sense that like real estate investors, you understand this, you invest in a hard asset and then you make cash flows from that asset from tenants, whatever it may be. And, and then you eventually pay off your initial capital with a minor you're owning a hard asset, but then you're generating a tremendous amount of Bitcoin. It all depends on a lot of times your energy costs. And if you're able to get good pricing when you're getting into mine, so someone who's buying miners in bulk, [00:57:30] they're gonna have access to the best miners and they're gonna have access to lower pricing. 

Will Szamosszegi: And that is one of the reasons why, like we had talked about it when we were deciding, is this something that we, we really want to go out and build is look like the everyday person doesn't have the ability to go and get bulk type pricing or access to new hardware. Um, they also don't have the ability to go and access extremely cheap power and efficient operations because they don't have enough volume with the energy [00:58:00] providers to get that cheap energy. And this is what's keeping everyday people outta mining. I mean, if you want to keep it decentralized, then you have to make mining accessible to people outside of just the large corporations and the public companies. And so, yeah, I'm very obviously amazed by a lot of the work that, that you've been leading up Kent in order to, you know, bring that together and piece everything together to make sure that that's what we can offer it, it kind of gives, gives me goosebumps thinking about like, [00:58:30] how that ties into what we were talking about earlier with the importance of money, the importance of decentralization, the importance of really building a better system. 

Will Szamosszegi: And all of that at the core is just Bitcoin line. 

Kent Halliburton: Yeah. I, I, I couldn't agree more with you and I'm, I'm really proud of what we've developed. I mean, it came from, from your ideas, uh, and just thinking about all the customer calls that we've been receiving that were just saying, there's exact same things. Like I can't get mining rings, I can't get low cost, clean [00:59:00] power, you know, like how do I do it? And so I worked out to be a stroke that, uh, we just had the, the right relationship right place, right time able to, to bring this to market and allow anybody to participate in this, this monetary revolution that we're experiencing right now. And very proud of the fact that we will, you know, be in Bitcoin, Miami, uh, with our hard launch. Uh, and hopefully this podcast will, will correlate with that as we come out, the gates run. And because we know this is a product the marketplace want [00:59:30] and, uh, and we're here to deliver it as, uh, as true blue, uh, Bitcoiners looking to do, like, one of my favorite quotes from ever is from Buckminster fuller, which is you don't fight the existing system. 

Kent Halliburton: You just build a better system that out competes it. And that's what I see Bitcoin doing. Um, I, the existing system continues to do what it does and I have no qualms with that, but I'm just stepping over onto a different stage where I think it's a, it's a better stage for us to, to perform on. So I'm excited to do that with you will, this has been, they super [01:00:00] fun time to, uh, to, to really blow out our philosophies on Bitcoin to, uh, a broader audience and, uh, and share a bit about what we're doing here at SA mining. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah, no, it was funny. I, I, cuz a lot of times like with guests and stuff, I'll like, you know, give 'em like some questions or something like that, but then like we just both were doing our own things this morning, just hopped on the call. I'm like, Hey, let's just, uh, pretend like this is a normal checking call. Just <laugh>. Yeah. Cause I'm sure that except normally we have to cut off the conversation because [01:00:30] we have to go and like, you know, take care of some, some business item, but this time it, it was, was obviously very fun cuz we could just keep going down different rabbit holes and yeah, these are, these are my favorite types of conversations and they're honestly not had, uh, all that often, but I think that they're very important, you know, just tying in, you have all these different creators, like for example, breed, love series. I know that you and I, we both listen to a lot of those episodes and there's just so many people out there putting up such great content and opening new paths with [01:01:00] paths and doors and um, and yeah, I think that we, we went down some pretty interesting rabbit holes on this conversation here. Yeah. 

Kent Halliburton: It, it really, it really feels like we're part of that expansion of the, the, the, the human consciousness with all these different conversations and yeah, I mean, it's, it's easy to co get caught up and not, not do real work, but we probably should go get back to running the company now as much, but as is. Um, and uh, and hopefully we get to see some people that, uh, watch us at, uh, Bitcoin 20, 22. [01:01:30] That'd be fun too. 

Will Szamosszegi: Yeah. Uh, a hundred percent that, so we're the most, most of our team's getting there on the fifth, right. April 5th. Um, then the conference goes till the ninth. So yeah, if, if you're listening and you, uh, wanna stop by the booth, I know the Kent you're, you're gonna be at the booth most of most of the event and yeah. Um, yeah, it it'll be a, it'll be a fun time. It'll be a great event. Last year was incredible. This year it's gonna be even bigger. And uh, I'm, I'm excited to, to go back out there and, you know, go and [01:02:00] be in that energy. It's, it's something special for sure. 

Kent Halliburton: It is. It is. I will. Thanks so much 

Will Szamosszegi: All.

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