Sazmining Podcast: The Sky is The Limit for Blockchain with Sergii Gerasymovych

Synopsis:‍

On this episode of The Sazmining Podcast, Will speaks with Sergii Gerasymovych, an entrepreneur who started his first company at 20 years old, failed, but became so determined to succeed that he ended up becoming the founder of successful blockchain company, EZ Blockchain. This episode covers Gold vs Bitcoin, Russia vs Ukraine, the unequal use of energy, using mining to heat spaces, predictions, and so much more.

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Transcript:

Will Szamosszegi (00:00:00):

Like people would look at it, they'relike, okay, this guy's crazy. But he was the technologist of his day.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:00:04):

The energy mix is such big mix thatwe can't just say one thing is bad and another thing is

Will Szamosszegi (00:00:09):

Good. If you're only gonna look atthe consumption side, then okay, well it takes energy to literally do anything.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:00:14):

Those people who find things useful,they're not gonna look for bad things in them.

Will Szamosszegi (00:00:19):

But if you were in a place withstrong currency with access to banking, you might be blind to how beneficialBitcoin and bitcoin mining actually is.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:00:28):

The environment to do cryptocurrency,mining business is way different than it was in 2000.

Will Szamosszegi (00:00:36):

Hey Serge, thanks for coming back onthe podcast. Uh, I've been looking forward to

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:00:40):

This one. Absolutely will. I'm happyto be back.

Will Szamosszegi (00:00:42):

Yeah. So we are, we are just talking rightafter you hopped in the meeting and it seems like so much has happened. Like itis just an absolutely crazy time, not just for the mining industry, but uh,globally. Right. How are you seeing things on your end?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:00:54):

Well, I mean, let Frank, it isturbulent times things, uh, upside down in, in the world in my home country.I'm actually from Ukraine, so been tough a little bit on Mia. So had to gothrough unpleasant experiences in my life. That aside, uh, businessperspective, of course things have changed since we are in cryptocurrency miningand cryptocurrency. Mining depends. 90% on electricity, at least it'soperational costs, all electricity now, electricity, prices and energy marketsare going sideways through the roof, through the bottom. Like you said, thingsare going crazy, honestly.

Will Szamosszegi (00:01:28):

Yeah. Oh, I mean a lot of those, somany miners were doing different things like locking in, like flicks, fixedfloating price, PPAs, all these different things. And those people are able tolock in. Fixed prices are probably feeling pretty good about themselves right

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:01:41):

Now. Oh, definitely they are, butI'll tell you, there are not that many, honestly. People got used to initialgas prices to be at $2 per cf, so everyone hoped to keep buying from the marketbecause it was very

Will Szamosszegi (00:01:53):

Cheap. Yeah, no, that's a good point.I mean, I'm curious as to like how all this shakes out from miners right now,because I feel like a, as you know, when, when you get in at prices, when theminers are like much lower costs, a lot of times people don't have as muchcapital when it's the best time to get in. And I feel like we've seen theseprices go from like they were peaking at like a hundred dollars a Tara hash orsomething like that. And now, I mean, what prices are you seeing nowadays? It'slike, I mean I've, I'm seeing rigs that were costing like 10 grand going forlike

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:02:22):

Two grand. Yeah, well everything haschanged, but you know, frankly saying, I've seen this before. We've been on themarket since 2017 and we did experience, uh, the crypto winner of 2018 2019.The only big difference is that at that time, natural gas prices there werealmost all time low at dollar $52, which of course, uh, made electricity pricesto be low. Nowadays though, we have very opposite situation where the powerprices are very high and that makes crypto market courtesy mining very tough toto do at all in general. So what we can see is of course, big pressure onmanufacturers and resellers of currency mining equipment. I have seen prices aslow as $14, $15 for S 19, frankly, saying, in my opinion, that's reasonableprice and I think there is more room we should be around $10, $12. That's whereeverything should have been. Let's be honest, in the last year there has beenso much money deployed into cryptocurrency mining equipment that now people aresitting slotted with that equipment not understanding what they're gonna do.Goal of our company was always to invest money in infrastructure versus buyingequipment that depreciates so quickly, cuz at the end of the day you can haveall cryptocurrency mining equipment in the world, but if it's sitting in yourwarehouse, you know, it's OC mining versus bitcoin mining,

Will Szamosszegi (00:03:44):

<laugh> just, uh, mining dustif it's just sitting there. Exactly. So I mean in terms of like planning it,cuz this is something where even when you're, when you've seen the cycle beforeand I I myself just went through this, is you almost get drawn into the hypewhen everything's going well. There are all these good headlines coming in andI mean you just see a lot of people who haven't been in mining just gettingburned and then having larger debt than the actual miners are worth. I guesslike from your perspective, how do you kind of like deal with it in thosedifferent cycles? Like is there a type of way that you approach the cycles oryou think about it when you're in the middle of it? Like you mentioned onething is like you guys are out there focusing on infrastructure, which I thinkis great.

(00:04:21):

Cause at the end of the day, wheneveryou do have those busts, people who have the infrastructure, they're in a very,very good spot. On the other hand though, it's on the mining side. If if you'vegot that equipment and then it start the price starts shooting up and you ownthat hardware, then you're feeling pretty good because you could have justdoubled your money and hardware if you're on the other end of that. So I guessthat's just to say is like how do you kind of think about the approach tomining and understanding that you're in a very volatile

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:04:45):

Business? Yeah, well it is, first ofall very, very tough to understand where the market gonna bottom or where whereit's gonna up. I'll be frank, uh, when Bitcoin passed 20 grand couple yearsago, basically having new all-time highs, I was kind of wary a little bit. Iwas not sure where we're gonna stop. I thought we're gonna be around 20 to$30,000 for some time and then we were like, after 30 and then we like 40, 50,60, you know, like everyone was losing their mind, me including, I was like, Imean, it has to stop. And then it's kept going, kept going. I was like, maybeit's not gonna stop. Maybe it's gonna,

Will Szamosszegi (00:05:19):

Yeah, it's like maybe it'll be asupercycle who knows

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:05:22):

<laugh>. Right, right. But look,there's so many events that influenced the price that influenced that, right?Well we have to keep in mind that we went through a double sworn event pandemicwhere not only a lot of people got sig, but from economic perspective who wereworking from home. So a lot of folks got involved in cryptocurrency during thatperiod of time. In addition, there was so much money has been distributed tothe system, which of course went to cryptocurrency as well. So there are somany things that come into, into play in this period of time with this withinthis supercycle. So I think we are, we are kind of where we supposed to be,maybe not that much, but in terms of what do we plan or did we plan? Of coursenot, let's be honest. Like how can you plan this is gonna be bad.

(00:06:03):

Of course we do have, uh, somecertain, uh, ways of managing our cash flows and managing our business, but themarket was so good, such a long period of time. But that, I mean, you couldn'timagine things go bad and you definitely couldn't, couldn't imagine things, thethings to go this bad. And they wouldn't, honestly, they wouldn't, uh, war inthe middle of Europe influenced things a lot in terms of this economy ingeneral. And uh, the shift in the paradigm of energy market changed completely.We've been talking about transition to solar and wind for such a long time andwith this current new administration, I mean it was like a done deal and herewe are figured, oh, we need some oil and gas for a little bit longer, right? Sonow that's a big shift, but when you talk about shifting energy markets and startfrom, you know, being super green and doing solar and then moving to naturalgas, you have to understand that no oil and gas investor gonna put money intosomething if they don't believe it's gonna last for some time.

(00:06:59):

You know, not that many people reallywant to invest, not, they really don't wanna shift and invest in oil and gas.It's like, eh, we'll just wait a little bit. We'll see what happens. So on, onour end, I mean our play has been always energy. We have always, uh, looked forlower prices, be it in, uh, you know, self generation from natural gas, be it,uh, trended locations, uh, with the stranded power and substations who alwaysbeen been looking for the, uh, for this type of power. And we're still looking,um, the same way. But I'll be frank, it caught us of guard. It

Will Szamosszegi (00:07:28):

Is really crazy too cuz what you hadmentioned, when everything's going very good, you almost feel like you'releaving money on the table. If you started selling, it was doing what would'vebeen at that time, the more fiscally responsible thing to do, knowing howthings play out. But hindsight's always 2020 and that's I think one of thethings that makes our industry so exciting. I feel like I would, I'd almost getbored if I was <laugh> if I was in a normal industry.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:07:51):

We all waited for crypto winner,right? Like those people who've been in it, they're like, okay, it's coming,it's coming. And then it's like new thing n f t hype and another hype and it'slike, oh my god. And then more regulation, good regulations than, you know,more companies adopting Bitcoin. It's like, oh, maybe, maybe we're done. Maybewe're done with crypto winners.

Will Szamosszegi (00:08:09):

Yeah. <laugh>, I'm curious, uh,you know, my view has changed on this many times, but are you guys focused onjust Bitcoin? Are you guys doing like Bitcoin and other types of, uh, mining orhow do you view I guess everything outside of Bitcoin?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:08:22):

It's a good question. Will we, werein crypto enter in 2018. We always were thinking about getting into differenttype of computational process, you know, like AI training, data mining, allthat stuff that can be done with GPUs. We've never did, uh, uh, go in that uh,direction because I mean, it's totally different business. It's way more, um,you know, sophisticated business. You need different type of talent. So we kindof focus more on building infrastructure and securing power as much aspossible. So currently the company is focused on specifically Bitcoin mining.We never on a grand scale, of course, mind any other cryptocurrencies we triedin, you know, lab environment to mine Ethereum when it was still possible andEthereum Classic in other coins. But today is Bitcoin only and I think it's agood bad cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin is very much adopted. We have more andmore positive news coming out. So I think, you know, we'll have that separationof bitcoin from other cryptocurrency. Very soon. It's coming. Yeah,

Will Szamosszegi (00:09:26):

I feel like the industry is very,it's just too, there's too much going on. It's difficult to stay on top ofeverything that's happening and like I'll try and stay up to date with it asmuch as I can. Like I've got a lot of friends who are in web three and I'llhear things through them and then learn about new technologies. But keepingyour head above water on all these different things is just tough. I mean, justbeing in the industry for a number of years, I've started going deeper down theBitcoin rabbit hole. It just sucks you into all these different things. Youstart learning about things outside of Bitcoin, outside of, uh, directly, youknow, what you're doing as a minor, which I think is fascinating. Yeah. And it,it does tie into everything, especially like being a business leader. A lot ofpeople, and if you're not leading a company, you might not be paying as muchattention to the regulatory risk, but as a leader of a business, that's a bigconsideration if of where you're gonna place your miners. Like what countryyou're gonna place that from your perspective, like how, how do you view it,uh, with easy blockchain and where you're gonna mine, how do you evaluatesites? How you find cheap energy? How do you juggle all those

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:10:27):

Variables? It became a little bitdifferent from, from what, what it was before. Now there are like moreululation and I'll tell you more regulations specifically from physicalinfrastructure build out. Now, when you go to an area, you tell you're gonnabuild a Bitcoin mining farm. People know what it is. They know which permit youneed to pull, they understand what type of, uh, electrical inspection they needto do. It's in some, some way it's better cuz now you don't have to explainevery time what it is. So from that perspective, that's, that's evolved a longway as well as, you know, from regulatory perspective, of course we go to theareas which are, they accept Bitcoin, like, you know, places like Wyoming,North Dakota, Texas, you know, Oklahoma, those states are very open, uh,Georgia as well, very open for business in general. So if it is a state that isopen for business and they want to track talent, they wanna attract capital,they want to attract new jobs, that's the place for your cryptocurrency miningto be.

(00:11:24):

And uh, we happen to be mostly inthose places. So it's interesting that you brought up the regulatory applianceissues cuz now when you're on the business, I mean you pay attention more towho, who do you deal with? Who is your customer? Like easy blockchain hasstarted recently our hosting service on scale, which we didn't do before.Evaluate every customer from a different perspective. It's not only, hey, Ihave two miners or a thousand miners or a hundred thousand miners, we wannawork, work with you now. Like when the company comes in, we kind of do a duediligence on them. Where are they from? Where's the company registered? Howmuch money they generate and what's their credit risk and so on. Cuz it'salready different, it's already different business. Your banks who you bankwith, finally you can bank with someone. They actually, you know, they askquestions like where's the money coming from? And I think it's good as long asit's kinda on a reasonable level when we don't get to the point that, you know,everything is questioned in this business. But I think we went a very, uh, bigway so far. The environment to do cryptocurrency, mining business is waydifferent than it was in 2018.

Will Szamosszegi (00:12:35):

Oh, I, it was, it, it's kind ofcrazy. Thinking back to, to that time, I mean just you mentioning being able togo and actually have people know what it is when you mention it, you're Ohyeah. Having a lot less of those intro conversations because at the end of theday too, the people in energy, they gotta pay attention to this. It's almostbecoming part of the business on the energy side and just the way that itinteracts with the grid and then just all these different structures Oh yeah.And ways that you can, I, I just, uh, spoke with the c e o of stronghold andthe way that they're managing it, they're really taking, it's a similarapproach to you in the sense of they're considering themselves in many ways, abig energy company and just understanding all those nuances. You plug in thistechnology with mining and then all of a sudden you can do all these othercreative things with your business model that just give you a competitiveadvantage over any energy company who doesn't figure this out over the nextlike 10, 20 years.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:13:28):

Look, it's, it's interesting youbrought it up cuz last week I visited, uh, the mining conference in Austin, inAustin area, and, uh, I was, uh, uh, giving this, uh, presentation about, uh,bitcoin mining merging with energy industry. That's my pure belief that within,you know, next five years you will have cryptocurrency, mining, uh, operationsall over the place. And they're gonna be on the backyards of power plants onthe backyards of, uh, oil and gas pads. Midstream companies gonna install them.The solar and wind company's gonna install them more and more and it will beutilized more as a, as a tool for energy management versus, uh, for printingcoins.

Will Szamosszegi (00:14:05):

It's interesting too, because justthe fact that you can generate value from this excess energy and then that'sportable, uh, through digital currencies. It, it is like a completely newtechnology. And I've started thinking about this more and more of, hey, newtechnologies, when you see them introduced, it just changes the fabric ofsociety. Like before the printing press, it was very difficult to get ideasacross to many people at once. Then all of a sudden, from the printing press tothe internet, now all of a sudden you could upload you, you could recordsomething once and then spread it to anyone who's plugged into the internetacross the entire network. It's just a completely different concept. I mean,just us speaking right now on this podcast, this is something that you couldnever have done. Yeah. The only way that you'd hear this conversation is if youwere in, in the same room with us. Right. So it, it, it just changes the way thatbusiness is done. And I would pose it as a very difficult challenge to anyoneto try and start a successful business in 2020 without having the internet atyour disposal. Exactly.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:15:04):

It's

Will Szamosszegi (00:15:04):

Just, you can't build a successfulbusiness in today's world like that versus who knows, like in a hundred yearswhat tools you're gonna need at that point in time. Yeah, that's a good point.Very different. And I guess what you're, what you just mentioned is that typeof an evolution from the mining perspective and the energy perspective. And Ishare that actually, that's one of the things that I've been, um, thinkingabout and I I'm curious to hear what your, some of your predictions are longerterm and by longer term, I mean you see this merging happening right now withmining in the energy sector, right? We know that every single, every four yearsyou have the having half the Bitcoin can be produced. So over time it's gonnaget more and more competitive to mine, you know? Yeah. Five years ago was a loteasier to mine than it is today. So you, you start playing that out over a longerperiod of time. Do you have any thoughts on what might happen?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:15:53):

Yeah, I have an opinion about it.Look, the way I look, I'm seeing this is that bitcoin mining have been revrevolutionizing different. Like first cryptocurrency miners were just miningcrypto, you know, they were revolutionizing in general internet the way wetransfer value over the internet. So, so that's basically first use case. Thenmore and more in cryptocurrency, currency mining was happening and uh, uh, wefound in need of cheaper power, cheaper sources of energy. So that's, that'swhy we were looking to collocate with hydropower plants. That's why there aremassive mining farms are like in West Texas where there is so much wind andsolar. That's why, uh, we install mobile data centers with gas electric generatorson the well pads. So we can take that flare gas and, you know, convert thatinto value and reduce the CO2 emissions. So I think Bitcoin mining is almostclose to its peak of revolutionizing energy.

(00:16:53):

And I think we are at almost the toplevel of optimizing usage of energy to optimize our operations in terms ofcost. So that question comes is, well how many is happening? What's happensnext if Bitcoin price doesn't go up? So I think the next revolution will bespecifically in ASIC manufacturing, mining specifically Bitcoin mining willlead to way bigger turgen development of Asics shot 2 56 asics that can minecryptocurrency more efficiency or more efficiently, sorry, I believe we will,uh, see five nano meter, three centimeter, two nanometer, one centimeter,whatever those nanometers are there very soon. Because in reality, to whatpoint can you reduce your cost of electricity? I mean, the 3 cents electricity,that's the cheapest you can get regardless. You do hydro, do solar, you dowind. I mean everything has its cost. So you are 3 cents that the cheapest. Buttoday, like if you look at prices, I mean even with five, five and a half centswith the most updated equipment like S 19 S pro, uh, you kinda very close,right?

(00:18:03):

So then beeping came up with xp S 19xp, which is way more efficient, way better machine. And they, you know, theymoving ahead to get better machines online, create better machines. So I thinkthe cycle of creating way more efficient equipment is coming and that's wherethe revolution gonna happen. Not in energy anymore. Cuz like we, we've donealready almost everything with energy. I mean, we haven't harnessed, uh, uh,you know, energy from, you know, speed of uh, uh, asteroids probably yet, butlike that's <laugh> not here, right? So we, we are, we we are at that,you know, top level of energy specifically.

Will Szamosszegi (00:18:42):

Yeah. That's interesting. I ha Iactually hadn't even thought about that. Yeah. Cuz you have the energy comingdown. We pretty much maxed that out. Or the most efficient miners you've seenmax that out in terms of efficiency. And then yeah, the other variables arereally the price of Bitcoin. But if you're assuming that the price of bitcoin'snot gonna be shooting up, then really the the final variable is okay, thehardware that's actually involved in that mining and actually to validate, uh,with your point with trends that we've seen in the past, we've consistently seenthe cycle over and over again where the equipment gets a lot more efficient.But yeah, unless there's some other crazy form of harnessing energy that wehaven't heard about yet. <laugh> uh, <laugh>.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:19:22):

Yeah, no, I, I mean human beings, uh,shouldn't be underestimated. We can come up with so many different things,especially Bitcoin miners, you know, well, Bitcoin miners are desperate people

Will Szamosszegi (00:19:34):

<laugh>,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:19:34):

They're always looking for somethingcheaper power, cheaper areas, you know, better environment so you can makemoney because this, i I mean this idea of Bitcoin mining to be compared to goldmining, I mean, it has some merit. I would say it's, uh, it's similar. I mean,you like making money by doing kind of nothing, but there's so much workinvolved <laugh>, it's like the thing with gold mining, you know, youhave an idea that you're gonna go and, and you know, find some gold in theriver doing nothing, and then it happens that you stay there forever and don'tget rich. The same here with crypto mining. I mean, it's a hard process. It'sbig infrastructure projects.

Will Szamosszegi (00:20:13):

Yeah. It's, it's hyper-competitive,right? Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, it's tied to the free market.Uh, so really you gotta be competitive enough to be able to compete in the freemarket. And the asset that you're mining is Bitcoin, which is an extremelyvolatile asset. I mean, I, I personally have very big beliefs in terms of wherethe price of Bitcoin will go, but especially if someone's not deep in theindustry and they don't understand the long term thesis for Bitcoin and thenall of a sudden they see their portfolio dropped by 50%. I mean, that, that canbe kind of scary.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:20:41):

Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, it's so, Imean, may I ask you a question? Uh, so what Yeah, of course. Think the Bitcoinprice gonna be,

Will Szamosszegi (00:20:48):

Uh, by what time? I mean mypredictions, I'm gonna sound like a crazy person. I I got

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:20:53):

You say 2024, end of 2024.

Will Szamosszegi (00:20:55):

Oh, okay. End of 2024. That's a toughone. I, because it's hard to say when exactly the, the bull cycle's gonna come,but I think by then, assuming that it comes, I, I see the price goingconservatively in, in the next bull cycle over a hundred thousand dollars.Like, so that's very con my, my conservative guess. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it goes over a milliondollars, which you know, that in that short of a timeframe. It's hard to tell.But I feel like in these cycles, and then my predictions get really crazy ifyou start going like longer term like 10, 10 plus years, like to 2035. But, um,at the end of the day, it's just so hard to tell cuz the, the total pie foraddressable market of Bitcoin, it depends if you're comparing it to like gold'smarket cap, like, you know, 10 trillion or if you're going even bigger for alonger term and you're going with this thesis of sound money and like how muchof the value in the world is gonna end up being underpinned by Bitcoin, right?Because it, but it's a complete paradigm shift. So if I start going withcomplete paradigm shifts, then the price of Bitcoin gets pretty crazy. But ifyou're just going comparing it to gold, okay, well how long until people, youknow, how long until it over takes the market cap up goal?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:22:08):

Yeah. It's very interesting,especially, especially ticketing consideration, new generation, right? Theyhave all those reports like how many, um, millennials, uh, own own Bitcoin andyou you could see numbers like from 20% to 50%, but you don't see surveys wherethey ask how many of the same people own gold. I think the number would be likeless than 1%. Honestly, I have no idea how to buy it. Even

Will Szamosszegi (00:22:34):

<laugh>. Yeah, yeah. I mean itis kind of funny when you think about it like, how do you even get like goldownership?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:22:40):

Yeah. On eBay, you buy the coin thatyou're not sure if it's even real <laugh>. That's the only way I know.

Will Szamosszegi (00:22:46):

Yeah, well, well it also is<laugh>. That's actually funny. I I, I actually, this was like a whileback. Um, I had, I, at this point I had known like nothing about investing. Um,I just had a friend who had been in investment banking and I was like, I don'tknow what to invest in. I, I mean what should I invest in? He's like, oh, wellyou could try and invest in like gold. Like there's this gold mining company.And I just remembered like investing in it and then like having to do additionalpaperwork for that one investment that I had made. I bet I don't remember allthe details of it now, but as soon as I could, I sold it. I'm like, okay, I'mdone. I'm done with gold.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:23:23):

Yeah,

Will Szamosszegi (00:23:24):

Exactly. Something else.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:23:25):

So the generation gonna change andthose folks who are majority owners of gold, I mean, they'll be gone and thenthey're gonna be new generation. And that new generation, I mean, wouldn't careabout gold.

Will Szamosszegi (00:23:36):

Yeah, that's true. I mean when youlook at why gold has the market cap it does, it's like, okay, well yes, it'sused in like jewelry, other types of use cases,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:23:44):

But that's not what it used it.

Will Szamosszegi (00:23:45):

Exactly. It's such a small part ofthe utility. So I think the, the last number I heard was, I believe it was 30%of the total market cap, which I think might be generous is for actual utilitypurposes. Whereas 70% of it is just people saying, Hey, you wanna protect yourwealth, you wanna store value rather than you can diversify your wealth byholding some. And that's what makes up 70% of its market cap. Uh, is that thestore of value narrative. Now Bitcoin, there's course utility to have a digitalasset that you can send peer-to-peer around the world. If you wanna trans, ifyou wanna transfer 10 billion worth of gold, it's gonna be very expensive. Ifyou wanna transfer 10 billion Bitcoin, no problem. Easy, right? So there'sclear utility in that alone, but then you also have the problem of peopletrying to protect their wealth and that 70% of gold's market cap the storevalue narrative. I think that that is one where Bitcoin blows gold out of thewater because all the characteristics that you need for store value, you know,Bitcoin is just far, far superior to golden. So I think that the youngergeneration, to your point, understands this at least to a certain degree, beingdigitally native, you grow up, you can just see, okay, well I don't care aboutlike this mineral or asset or, or rock or whatever you wanna call.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:24:59):

Yeah. It's, I mean it's a rock

Will Szamosszegi (00:25:01):

<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. I'd, I'dmuch rather hold it in something that actually is, is useful like Bitcoin andeventually, you know, those people are gonna grow older and own the wealth ofthe society.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:25:10):

Exactly. Well look, I mean, honestly,uh, I mean comparing all to Bitcoin would be nice when Bitcoin decouples forcryptocurrency. So it's not so volatile. Cuz that's the biggest concern ofthose haters. Like, well if it's a store value, why is it so volatile? Right?Yeah. <laugh>, and of course there is a reason to that, but I think it'sso volatile because the market cap is so small. Yeah. So if it's higher, ifit's to your point it's a hundred thousand dollars or $200,000 per coin, that'snot gonna be the volatile, cuz you would not have that much money or capital tomove the market that easily.

Will Szamosszegi (00:25:45):

Yeah, that's so true. I feel likethat's a, a big part that's overlooked. And I mean in many ways I think thatwe've seen it more recently is Bitcoin is almost acting like a high techgrowth, uh, or a high tech stock, right? Yeah. Or like, even if you look atthese companies that are behemoths today, like Amazon, I, I don't think Amazonwent a a single year without having like a drawdown of something like 30% justbecause it was sh it was early stage companies. When you have smaller marketcaps, there's just a lot more volatility cuz it takes less money to move themarket. Exactly. And so at the end of the day, like fast forwarding, yeah, whenBitcoin has much larger market cap, it's gonna be much harder to mine, but it'salso gonna, you know, not be as volatile. I mean, it ha it actually has beensurprisingly not like, it, it it has been very, um, had low, very lowvolatility recently. Like there's been,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:26:34):

Oh, it, it reminds me 2018 $3,000price. Yeah. From 3000, 3,600 tops. And then it just goes down. It's just flat.I see the same, we are like playing within that 18,000 to 20,000 range rightnow, to be honest, like I think we are in a way better position nowadays than,than we were like a couple years ago. Frankly. It's adopted, it's, it's anasset. Like you don't really read articles, it's dead now. You read morearticles that you know, you know, Buckman Fried, purchased, uh, you know, abunch of cryptocurrency or he, some other person pur acquired a company. Soit's like more business news versus, uh, like speculative news, you know, thoseyellow pages <laugh>. So it's different.

Will Szamosszegi (00:27:19):

Yeah. I I think that there's like awebsite or something that shows the number of times in the media where peoplehave said that Bitcoin has died. I cannot remember what the website's called,but it's a very large number and it is still very much alive. I, it's likeimpossible to kill too. When you look at it from like a technology perspective.It is the most durable computing network in the entire world. And I think it,it's because of the miners. I mean,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:27:42):

Yeah, miners have been overlooked fora long period of time. I think now it's a, it's a period of time where we wereuh, like more appreciated. Yeah. That like, oh, then those are people whoactually run the machines and they do the work and they help these communitiesand they, uh, you know, hire local talent and create tech jobs and pay taxesand, you know, help the power plants to be online and keep the flaring away,reduce CO2 emissions and, you know, incentivize renewable energy is like, oh,these folks, you know, deserve to leave <laugh>

Will Szamosszegi (00:28:15):

<laugh>. Yeah. Well I feel likethis energy conversation is going and becoming much more prevalent and youknow, we actually at SA SAS Mining, we have, we have a book club and the bookwe're reading right now is called The Grid. And you hear a lot about, uh, howthe grid works, like how it came to be or you hear a lot about how it worksfrom other minors. But I think that this book's really interesting cuz youreally learn about like how it really works underneath and how it, how it started.Right. And I haven't finished the book yet. Uh, we haven't finished it for thereading club yet, but I'm just, that in and of itself, just learning about howthe energy sector works. It's like almost no one knows how, uh, oh. Yeah. Whenyou flip on your light switch, everything works. It's just such a crazy conceptthat everything just works in today's day and age, where in the early days, youknow, very, very few people were wealthy enough to be able to affordelectricity.

(00:29:08):

People didn't always have electricityand they were using, like imagine if you were using candles when you're workinglate at night, right. Or, you know, just, or you didn't have like heating orcooling. These are just, it, it's a completely different world today. And it'sbecause we found a way to harness this energy. And the interesting thing aboutmining is that mining helps you harness energy better and helps the energycompanies deliver a better experience. And I mean, at the end of the day, it'sjust gonna make everyone's lives better if we can have a more efficient energycycle.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:29:38):

Well, exactly what you said aboutlike energy and heating and cooling. You know, I like these concepts that arebuilt by manufacturers right now to use, uh, cryptocurrency, mining equipmentand reuse also the heat it creates. That's a new concept that now you can just,you know, boil the water and spread the water around. You can use that heat forgreenhouses. It was kinda, you know, something weird couple years ago to thinkabout it. But now when operations be became more efficient and more, morepeople understand how to run crypto mining at all, they kind of like want tofigure out what do we really do with that heat? Can we use that heat for like,you know, bigger things? And not only greenhouses, but like using the heatfrom, uh, uh, the Bitcoin mining machines to, to warm houses. That's, that's anew thing completely to warm water in the boilers. Very cool concept. I thinkit has some lag and I think within the next couple of years we'll see more andmore and that will prove that now, uh, not only, I mean we utilizing wastedenergy as an industry and helping to incentivize renewable energy, we actuallyreuse the, the energy which is created, which is heat. It's a big deal in myopinion.

Will Szamosszegi (00:30:55):

Hearing you talk through this kind ofreminds me of it. It's the conversation of like how the world is so differenttoday than it was in the past. And it's diff gonna be different in the future.You're starting to see a brain drain and it's really picking up of just thesmartest people wanting to work on new technology, wanting to work inindustries like the, the ones that we're in, uh, or blockchain web three,things like that. It's very, very intelligent people going and solving newproblems. And I think that one of the interesting thing is things that we'llalso see is a lot of these smart people on the engineering side just coming overand building better systems and finding better ways to do, to do mining or, orintegrate with the energy sector. And I mean, at the end of the day, I mean,you look at like Rockefeller, Carnegie, all these guys, what they were involvedin, like oil or steel.

(00:31:42):

That to us sounds like, okay, wellthat's a, that's an older business, you know, that's mm-hmm.<affirmative>, that's not technology, but for their days. I mean, thosewere the, those were the technologists, right? Yeah. I mean, at the time it wascrazy to think that you were just gonna go and like use oil and create thingswith it. Like people would look at it, they're like, okay, this guy's crazy.But he was the technologist of his day. And the technologist today are workingon different problems, but building things that rest of the society don't yetsee can be

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:32:10):

Built. Yeah. Well it's, it's, I mean,uh, the Rockefeller I think created the pipeline in pipeline network. That'swhat was needed in order to transport the oil at that time. So he was likethinking, how do I bring my stuff to market quicker? Right? Yeah. Same way we doright now. Like, we need to figure out the ways to optimize the operations.Where do we get cheaper power? How do we use that power to, to have lesslosses? It's, it's interesting, <laugh> you mentioned about the engineersgetting to the game. Um, I had a conversation with one of the engineers whoworked for major oil and gas company and, uh, <laugh>. He basically waspushing this project of utilizing Bitcoin mining for flare gas in the companyfor very long time. And, you know, the board was not, was not interested inthat. And at some point he, we basically talked with him and he's saying, Hey,look, if it was, it was, if it was my choice, I would already be mining Bitcoinin every well pet of this company.

(00:33:13):

And within a year we would get rid ofall that we have and we would be the cleanest company <laugh> in oil andgas sector, but they don't wanna do it. Yeah. So, cause as an engineer, herethought how we can do it, and also they had a great idea. Um, also we'reusing heat. It's, it's, it's so many bright minds, uh, in engineering space,uh, specifically who want to, uh, use this technology. And I mean, whentechnology's not only like Bitcoin trans transferring through transactions, butlike Bitcoin mining for, for multiple reasons, for, for optimizing their energyoperation.

Will Szamosszegi (00:33:49):

Yeah. I think that that's one of the,the directions that it seems like you agree with where the industry's going. Ithink that this becomes a, a massive proof of work. Bitcoin mining becomes amassive tool for combating climate change. I mean, if you think about justpercent the ability to capture the capture like methane emissions and thenutilize that to generate economic value, uh, there doesn't seem to be an actualuse case for methane or a real solution to that problem outside of Bitcoin. Andso I think that as more and more minors realize over time that that's thelowest cost energy and that the, the incentive structure is there to have yououtcompete from a cost perspective on the electricity side, the naturalincentives of the network are gonna drive more miners to want to pursue thelowest cost energy, which it, which is some form of waste or bootstrapping anenergy asset. And so it, it is kind of incredible how, uh, the conversationtoday around bitcoin mining being bad, bad for the environment is almostcompletely flipped upside down. Like it's just the complete wrong way to lookat it. Uh, but the people who are having that discussion aren't experts inenergy or mining. So it's like a bunch of people talk about something thatthey, that they're not involved in that they don't know how it actually works.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:35:02):

Well, there's more research needs,uh, to, to come, you know, uh, to the world and, uh, people have to read it.But it's, it's very tough, you know, to get to mainstream media and uh, uh, getquoted or, you know, just write a good article. It, it's honestly, I have beeninterviewed very many times by major new news outlets out there and, you know,podcasters and sometimes like you give an interview and then you read anarticle and it's like, guys, you just pick the things you wanted. <laugh><laugh>, right? Yeah. Versus us having a conversation here, me and you,and then hearing the whole piece, like, and there's like no certain things thatyou want to put in your narrative, hear it out a piece of context, read it,listen to

Will Szamosszegi (00:35:50):

It. Yeah. When you take things outtacontext, it you, it's just so easy to completely misrepresent someone's views.If you just take a small piece, like, I mean, I'm trying to remember the story.Someone had had told me about a thing where, let, I'll just give a scenario.It's not the one that I was given, but let's say that you see two people on thestreet and one guy's just standing there minding his own business, and thensome other guy just comes out from nowhere, goes up to the guy and punches himin the face. And you just see that short clip, you're like, okay, well thatdude who went and punched the dude in the face is like an awful person, right?Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But then let's say that I give you some contextand be like, oh, the dude who was standing there, he like had murdered someonein that guy's family and, uh, you know, is a convicted criminal who should havegone to jail and didn't, right?

(00:36:38):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, all of asudden your view of that one scenario is just completely different, right? Andso I think that that's like a, like in a, I guess a physical context, but like,just like from taking up part of a podcast interview or taking part of aconversation and just cutting out all the context and giving a sound bite, youcan make someone sound or seem like they're saying something that they justcompletely disagree with or don't believe. And that's kind of the way thatmedia today is ingested in many ways is that like these sound bites are withthese short attention spans, which is kind of scary that narratives can be spunand, uh, used so easily, uh, to, to change people's minds.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:37:18):

It's true, it's true. But you know,on the positive side, that's why we have podcasts like yours, like, you know,new news articles, uh, from cryptocurrency industry who are building our ownnarrative. Yeah. Now we figured like, okay, if we don't have an audience frommajor, uh, news outlets, we'll just create our own. There is a lot of peopleare following, you know, the podcasters following, even the people on Twitterpost, uh, you know, facts about cryptocurrency. Uh, I think it's gettingbetter. Frankly, it's not what it used to be. And some positive, positivethings Bitcoin mining does can be, uh, thrown away right now anymore. Likeeveryone can see that, like, this is not something like that you can disregard.

Will Szamosszegi (00:38:04):

Yeah. There are some good newsoutlets as well. Like, for example, uh, especially in our industry, um, and youknow, maybe this is me being biased, but I think that, like I've, I've had artarticle, I just had an article that was in CoinDesk Coin Telegraph and a coupleof times Bitcoin magazine. Like, they're willing to say things that are prettyoutrageous that I, I don't think you'd really see in the mainstream media. Likethe, the one that was just published on CoinDesk was about this concept of, so,you know how there used to be church and, and church and state and they werepretty much together. And then you had the separation of church and state. Thearticle was about how Bitcoin and sound money is gonna eventually bring apartthe separation of, uh, money and state. So right now, the whole concept thatyou have around the world is that money and state need to be won, right? Thegovernment, they issue, they print the money, but I think that if you have adecentralized sound money, that eventually you'll see people realizing that youcan have the separation of money in state. Just like how for you didn't knowthat you could have the separation of, uh, church and

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:39:07):

State, you know, decentralization ofmoney is a huge topic cuz it's becoming more and more, uh, reasonable nowadays.I mean, you can see the results of poor, you know, monetary policies in, indifferent countries, including United States. You know, Euro is cheaper thanYes. Dollar right now. That's

Will Szamosszegi (00:39:26):

So wild.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:39:27):

Yeah. I think British Pound is in thesame area and, uh, you can see clearly that some decisions were poorly made andthat's why things are happening and the people themselves have to value money alittle bit differently, right? Because we get used to, uh, I mean spending,spending, spending, it's more like consumerism that we live in. And now likewhen the markets are turbulent and things are going bad and no one knows what'sgonna happen to get tomorrow, you're like, all right, now kind of, you canreevaluate that life is different, that there is value in, in, there should bevalue in your money, it should be value in your effort at the end of the day.So, I mean, it's big topic, very big topic. Go over. I'm honestly not a bigexpert like in, you know, in monetary policies and who's right, who is wrong,but, you know, printing money doesn't really help in my opinion. So Bitcoin istotally opposite, right? So that's why it's gained so much, so much tractionamongst people who are against, uh, government, who are against, uh, you know, federalReserve. Uh, because it's it's separate thing. It's no one controls it. Uh,cool. And in, in addition, in addition, it does many more things.

Will Szamosszegi (00:40:38):

Yeah. The, the true utility ofBitcoin. This is actually a concept that I, I like to bring into theconversation of, um, like for example, when I'm talking about the environmentalaspect of it, uh, I feel like it's hard to have that discussion if you don'tunderstand anything about Bitcoin or if you're coming into that discussionthinking Bitcoin has no value. Like at the end of the day, everything there'sinvolve, everything that we use and love involves energy in some type ofproduce, something it takes energy to produce. So if you're only gonna look atthe consumption side, then, okay, well, it takes energy to literally doanything. It takes energy to create like your iPhone or like to create yourclothes or to create pewter, right? We, we don't question, Hey, was your shirtmanufactured at a facility that was tied to the grid where it was 50% coal orsomething like

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:41:27):

That? Sorry for interrupt. We don'tquestion why do we run refrigerators 24 7? Do we? Yes.

Will Szamosszegi (00:41:32):

<laugh>, we definitely don'tquestion that. Yeah. Right. I think everyone wants a refrigerator<laugh>,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:41:37):

Like why don't we shut it down fromtime to time? Right, <laugh>?

Will Szamosszegi (00:41:40):

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Hey, you don'tneed food <laugh>. Yeah.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:41:44):

You want everything fresh, right?What about, uh, you know, putting everything in your pantry under, underneaththe ground <laugh>. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (00:41:52):

Yeah. And then like, uh, yeah, I meaneven just like little things like Christmas lights, right? It's like, yeah,they're pretty, they're awesome. It also takes a lot of energy to, to create abunch of Christmas lights, but then like all of a sudden when you're talkingabout like a freedom technology that can significantly improve the lives ofbillions of people around the world, like all of a sudden now, oh, there's novalue in that. Like, no value in something that that could improve the livesof, of people. Every, pretty much every person under an oppressive regimearound the world can benefit from this technology. It's almost like we've gota, a warped view on it. I mean, I prob everyone has a warp view. Everyone comesfrom their own perspective, but I think it's an important perspective, right?Like this can help a lot of people, but if you are in a place with a strongcurrency with access to banking, with access to pretty much all the things thatelectricity and harnessing energy can give you, then you might be blind to howbeneficial bitcoin and bitcoin mining actually is.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:42:48):

You know, it's funny, uh, that untilbitcoin mining started utilizing flare gas, no one even knew about flare gas.And now's yeah. Everyone starts telling that, well, it's still a waste ofenergy because you don't do anything with that energy, but mine Bitcoin. AndI'm like, are you guys serious? <laugh> this, this flare of gas was goingliterally in the air and you didn't care only until Bitcoin mining came intothe game. So Bitcoin mining has a very important educational role to play. Whenwe started our, our venture in, in flare gas, I literally couldn't find anydata online. Every data we had to harness ourselves, like bringing fromdifferent sites, read about it, understand where this flaring happening, whyit's happening, and so on. Like, you couldn't figure find it. The like onlyresearch papers you could find were like 2002, 2005. And now, like you ask likeany guy in crypto about flair guests, like, oh yeah, we know it. It's, it's aguess growing up into the air, like everyone knows Yeah.

(00:43:54):

Like, well, and are the, are therelike experts come in? Well, it's still the net natural gas generators. Theystill have, uh, CO2 emissions. Yeah. Duh. They do, of course. But we wereburning that thing <laugh>, now we get that money, we pay taxes. No onepays, pays attention to that, right? You don't get tax for burning there. Thegas into the air, when you make value of that gas, you actually pay tax thatpays for your schools, for your police, you know, for your social security fora bunch of other things. Like people don't think that much. It's like, oh, it'sjust bad. Yeah, it's funny. I'm nowadays I'm like, whatever.

Will Szamosszegi (00:44:31):

<laugh>. Yeah, it

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:44:32):

People say

Will Szamosszegi (00:44:32):

That. Yeah. It is funny. And it'sinteresting too. You're, you're shaping, I don't know the right way to saythis, but it's like almost like taking one thing, putting it into a differentform factor. Yeah. Until it's actually useful, right? It's like, okay, methane,it's being polluted. All of a sudden you turn it into electricity, all of asudden you turn that into Bitcoin, all of a sudden that Bitcoin gets turnedinto whatever else it gets turned into. But it's, it's a really, really fascinatingprocess that you guys are involved in. And I think that it's an importantconversation and I think more people are gonna eventually hear about it andit'll become more mainstream. But yeah, I'm, I'm really curious to see whenthat dart's getting legs in terms of like more mainstream media. Like whenpeople who are out there talking about how they care about the environment,which is great, there are a lot of things that need to be done when they startto finally accept and say, Hey, this is useful for combating climate change.

(00:45:22):

Cause I, I feel like right now on theservice, that whole conversation, a lot of people are talking about how bitcoinmining's bad for the environment. So if you're one of those people who arethink, who thinks it's bad and then all of a sudden comes put in touch with newresearch and new information, there's gonna be some cognitive dissonance therewhere you're gonna think, well, I was just shitting on Bitcoin for like, thepast like four years talking about how like, it's awful for the environment.It's gonna be a kind of weird, a weird change in perspective to all of a suddennow be like, oh wait, this is one of the strongest tools out there to combatglobal

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:45:53):

Warming. Absolutely. Well, you canalways say that refrigerators are also bad for the environment.

Will Szamosszegi (00:45:59):

Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah, that'strue. <laugh> <laugh>. Yeah. The uh, yeah, the the refrigeratorthing is crazy too. Cause that's another just wild technology now. Thank God wehave refrigerator.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:46:10):

It's true, right?

Will Szamosszegi (00:46:11):

<laugh>, yeah. Yeah. Just likeall the little things that,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:46:14):

So it's, it, you know, it's thething, it's like people, those people who find things useful, they're not gonnalook for bad things in them. Like, oh, I have a fridge, it's a good thing. Idon't, I don't bother to use 24 7 power. Uh, but then is there is some bitcoinguy who uses flared gas in North Dakota. He's probably a, he's probablypolluting the environment. <laugh>

Will Szamosszegi (00:46:36):

<laugh>. Yeah, that is true. Imean, the other crazy thing about it too is, and it is gonna be kind of quick,let me know if this doesn't make sense. It's, it's an idea I've, I've kind ofbeen thinking about, but at the end of the day, each person in the world isusing different amounts of energy just based on like your daily activities,what you consume, what you use. People in developed nations technically use alot more energy than people in, in developing nations, right? So going off ofthat, if you have an entire country, you're, you're, you're putting a limit onthe amount of energy that an entire country can use. It sounds prettyhypocritical if you're in one country u utilizing so much energy and then allof a sudden in some other part of the world you're saying, okay, well you guyscan't use as much energy. So like the energy that I wanna hold all you guys tois one 10th the amount of energy per person to meet this max or cap on yourenergy that I'm using here in, in the western world. That just seems kind ofhypocritical in many ways to say, okay, well I can do it, I can use 10 timesthe energy, but this country to meet your limit, you each have to use one 10ththe energy that I'm currently using per day. Did, did that make sense? The waythat

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:47:46):

Articulated it makes a lot. Ofcourse.

Will Szamosszegi (00:47:48):

It just, it just seems so weird tosay out loud. Yeah,

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:47:51):

Yeah, of course. It does make a lotof sense. I mean, of course inequality, I mean, it has been a big deal on, on aglobal scale. I mean, like, you know, one country's living better than othersand there are reasons for that. It's, it's not just like a fact, you know,energy in general is, is is is so important in our lives that we can't justignore the fact that we need it. Uh, and today is the energy mix is such a bigmix that we can't just say one thing is bad and another thing is good. Likewhen you flip your switch at home, you don't really ask your question, is itcoming from solar or wind? When nuclear or coal? You don't, honestly, youdon't. You just have it online and there are other folks who worry about it onthe, the end of the wire.

(00:48:37):

So that's why it's more hypocriticalwill to basically, you know, those examples when you fly, apply private jet andyou lobby the bills. Uh, who, yeah, oil and gas. I mean, that's, that's real,real hypocrisy I guess. Uh, we just need to cool off on things and take a lookat energy markets with energy markets, eyes versus pol politics and, and pollsand, and feedback from constituents who can evolve to next election. And thathas become such a big problem. And one of the reasons to that, I think becausemost of the politicians, they've been there for quite a long time, so they'reusing the same techniques and tools they were using before, but the times aredifferent. The times are different. There is more solar and wind energy inTexas than anywhere in the world, probably per capita. And yet, uh, oil and gasfolks in Texas are bad guys.

(00:49:32):

It's like you guys figure, right?Like, is Texas good or bad? Like they have so much solar energy and they haveso much oil, like, so pick a <laugh>, you know, pick a site. So it's,it's about, I mean, of course the transition is happening, but we just can'tban one thing and, uh, you know, and pretend, uh, to happen. You know, bigexample of this let's, I mean since we're talking about politics and on thepodcast, we can talk whatever I believe, but yeah, <laugh>, you know, bigexample of it, what's happening in Europe right now, specifically in Germany,you know, Germans are biggest proponent of, uh, solar panels and wind and, youknow, conserving energy. And at the same time they were buying natural gas fromTater ship where there's the worst flaring numbers in the world.

Will Szamosszegi (00:50:23):

I know that. Wow.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:50:24):

Well, yeah, of course Russia, Russiahas the largest flare, uh, emissions flare gas emissions in the world. More tothat, the conditions, work conditions are very different. And another thing, Imean, they just invaded another country and at the same time, Germany pretendsthat they have solar and wind. I mean, it just doesn't make sense. Yeah. So,and it's all about the money they were buying that natural gas cuz it wascheaper to buy that than to have their own. So like we have to clearly talkabout the facts from different angles, especially when we talk about energy.And now when, you know, Russia started using their energy supply to Europe asas a war tool, everyone was like, oh, okay, can we just, can we just stop thistransition for a little bit until we figure things out? Right. <laugh>like, yeah, you can stop it for a little bit, but why don't we just, why don'twe just figure out how, how to live together, how to, how solar folks can workwith oil and gas folks.

Will Szamosszegi (00:51:23):

<laugh>. Yeah, exactly. And

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:51:24):

They actually do. That's sointeresting. The largest energy companies, you know, they, they do invest insolar and wind. They invest in nuclear, they invest in, you know, in industriesthat they see to be a future. The future has to come gradually. We can't justpress the bottom of shutting down every coal plant and natural gas power planin the United States with a hope. There're not gonna be any blackouts. Wellactually we can because now we have bitcoin mining

Will Szamosszegi (00:51:55):

<laugh>. Yeah. I, it's sofascinating. I, and I would, you know, I would regret if I didn't ask, but I'mcurious as to like what your view on the current conflict is in, in like Russiaand, and Ukraine. Cause I feel like it's one of been one of those things whereit's so hard, like just watching the news and hearing so much information and Ifeel like it's such a politicized issue that I, I've almost like taken a stepback and haven't been like paying attention to it, um, as, as much as I shouldhave. Just cuz I also would consume like too mu like all of my thoughts, youknow? So I'm curious as to, um, like what your view on it is and where it mightbe headed.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:52:33):

Well, well it's very tough, toughquestions for me personally because it's, you know, my answer gonna be alwaysbiased, but, you know, whatever, I mean news and whichever new, whichever newsyou watch, whenever things started, I was talking to my cousin on the FaceTimeand, and the rocket was blowing, blowing on the back, basically in thebackyard. And she was screaming and, and hiding. It was insanely horriblesituation. Uh, and uh, my sister, my youngest sister, she was, uh, in Kiev, uh,she's a student on the 24th of February and she woke, woke up from explosionsand it was insane. So it is, it, it's a huge, uh, it's a huge problem. It's thebiggest, I mean it's the biggest war since 1945 in Europe. And uh, uh, it'scompletely not about nato. It's, it's not about, uh, you know, Ukraine givingup territories. It's about one person, honestly.

(00:53:37):

And that person just has imperialistspews and uh, that person wants to invade and he would keep invading till untilhis dead, you know, honestly. So that's, that's the issue. The horrible thingis so many people are dying just every honestly day. And the the, you know,Elon Musk tweeted recently about, like, some people were pro-Russian and, andthat was very wrong to say cuz there were some, uh, there are some people who,who spoke Russian and they had like pro-Russian views, but you know, in Americayou speak Spanish too. It doesn't mean you, you want to, and next Texas, uh,well in Texas, Texas was a next, but it doesn't mean you wanna join Mexico,right? <laugh>. So like, it's, it's different. Like, so it's supercomplicated, super tough. Ukrainian Ukrainians are kicking ass, uh, with thehelp of Americans of course. But, uh, it's horrible. It's horrible. It's, uh,it's, it's, it's the biggest problem with, I think it's gonna be the biggestproblem with 21st century eventually.

Will Szamosszegi (00:54:46):

Yeah. It's, and this is goes to oneof the concepts as well, just like war in general. It's, it's kind of, um,it's, it's crazy that it, it's almost like it's innate. Like when you have likethose types of imperialist views and you mentioned like down to the, the viewsof one person who are like, okay, well we're gonna go and invade. But I thinkit also stems from just with better technology and the access to do this. Imean, in the old days you couldn't have one crazy imperialist who all of asudden could bring down the threat of, with, of that much vi violence. Cuzyou're limited based on the technology you have. Like that's a scary thingabout the potential for something like World War ii where you have suchincredibly powerful technology where it's like mutually assured destruction ifcertain technologies use. But yeah, I mean, thoughts and prayers go out to youand everyone in the family and every person who's involved in that conflict orany other conflict around the world. It is, it is a crazy, crazy thing that ithappens and it's been happening like more and more over time and you know, it,it's a very unstable time right now. Uh, that's for

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:55:54):

Sure. Very, very unstable time. It's,it's very unstable time. It's horrible. But you know, it's, uh, it could havebeen prevented. I wouldn't say that. Like, it's, it's like the fault of thevast only, I mean, the Ukrainians also have some fault that they didn't prepareand you know, they have been fighting each other. I mean fighting like popoliticians, but the, you know, uh, but it's, uh, it's horrible in general thatit's happening and everyone is tired of it. Like my family's tired of it. LikeI'm tired of it. I can't, I can't live normal life. Okay. You know, I didn'tknow what's happened in Ukraine before the world at all, at all. You know, I'vebeen in the United States for a very long time. I kind of didn't pay attention.Now it's like, you know, people and you care. So it's, it's horrible situation.

(00:56:38):

It's, uh, everyone is tired. Everyoneneeds to be over. The reality is can't just stop anymore because like, we can'tjust say, well, let's have a truth and, and figure something out. And that'swhat people kind of misunderstanding because we already had that, you know,Putin invaded, invaded Georgia country in 2008, and since it was very smallcountry, no one really paid attention. And, uh, it, it was quick becauseGeorgia is 4 million people, so they didn't have chance to fight back. And thenputting invaded, uh, uh, uh, Ukraine and Xia, you know, with a matter of daysand everyone is like closed eyes like, eh, you know, it's fine. Then theystarted, uh, uh, you know, a war in Eastern Ukraine in Hans and Danez area andthey were doing that there. And also everyone's like, ah, okay, it's like proxywar and stuff. So people didn't really wanna bother, you know, because it's,everyone has very deep relationship. You know, Russia has big deep relationwith Europe. Europe has with America. It's like, we are in global economy rightnow, so people are like, ah, it's not good to do, but can we just close oureyes? But now, now it's, it's no more and more and you know, the guy may stop,you know, at, at La Munch next to, you know, that's, that's the reality. So, sothat's, that's the problem people can see and can see. And, uh, the, the, thenews, the reality is actually way worse than what the news showing

Will Szamosszegi (00:58:12):

Really

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:58:13):

Way worse. Like I have. Cuz there areother problems that you don't see. Like I have my, my father leaves there andit's, you don't have water, you don't have food, everything's too expensive.There's no supply, no gasoline, and it's a huge country. It's 45 million peopleand it's the size of taxes in Europe, you know, so the things are worse. Uh,people don't have work, so they don't work. So there's no economy doesn't workthen those areas where there is no, no, no, no, not a war conflictspecifically. I mean they, they just shoot missiles on it. Uh, so it's nowheresafe as before. So it's, it's, it's bad. But anyway, I think it's, uh, you'lldecide either to keep it in the, in the podcast or not, but it's, it's, it's abig topic, frankly.

Will Szamosszegi (00:59:00):

Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you forsharing that. I know that that's definitely not an easy thing to share.

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:59:04):

Well, thank you for asking.

Will Szamosszegi (00:59:06):

Yeah, definitely. Um, so I got onelast question, but before I ask the, the final question, um, or yeah, before Iask the final question for everyone out there who's listening and wants tofollow with what you're doing or support you in any way, you know, know, andthe company, how can they connect with you?

Sergii Gerasymovych (00:59:24):

You can guys go to the website easyblockchain.net or can follow me on Serge Guerra in Twitter. Please actually dofollow me there. I have very, very small number of followers. <laugh>need some more. And, uh, we actually write a very good block on easyblockchain.net where we talk about energy, bitcoin, and other matters. So Ithink there's some useful information for you guys.

Will Szamosszegi (00:59:48):

Great. Yeah. So, uh, the finalquestion is, uh, what is one belief you hold to be true that the majority ofpeople would disagree with you about? And I'll, I'll give you a second to thinkhere and also just plug, um, something new that says Mining's been doing. So onTwitter, we just started doing these Twitter spaces where we bring in leadersto, actually later today we're talking with Dennis Porter, so Wow. It'sThursdays at, uh, 3:30 PM Um, I guess by the time that this episode comes out,we'll have already had the discussion, but yeah, if you, if you like thepodcast and you want to go and start following us on Twitter and start joiningsome of these conversations, uh, we also, at the end, at the end of every hour,let people actually come up on stage and ask questions, uh, with us or theguests. Um, so I'm normally on, and one or two other people from SAS mining arenormally joining those. So, uh, yeah, if you like the podcast, go check thatout.

Sergii Gerasymovych (01:00:40):

Absolutely. I will join you guys.

Will Szamosszegi (01:00:43):

Yeah. Um, so yeah, answer to thequestion, one belief that you hold to be true, that the majority of peoplewould, uh, disagree with you

Sergii Gerasymovych (01:00:49):

About that Bitcoin mining is a toolto resolve wasted energy problem.

Will Szamosszegi (01:00:54):

That's a good answer, <laugh>,I, I, I believe the, the exact same thing and I think the, we're, we would bothbe in the minority with that.

Sergii Gerasymovych (01:01:01):

Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (01:01:02):

All right. Well man, thank you againso much for coming onto the episode. This was, uh, a lot of fun. Um, and youknow, th this is the second time we've done this episode, so we're gonna haveto do some more in the future and we'll have to loop you in as one of theguests on the Twitter spaces in the future as well.

Sergii Gerasymovych (01:01:17):

Of course. Well, the pleasures, thankyou very much for having me.