Sazmining Podcast: Jiu-Jitsu, Energy, and Bitcoin with Jake Corley

Synopsis:

In this episode of The Sazmining Podcast, Will speaks with Jake Corley, Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Wildcatters, former marine, and co-host of the very first oil & gas podcast. Jake is deeply passionate about the intersection of technology & the energy industry.This episode covers A.I. and the changing world, the Pros and Cons of each energy source, the effects of phone addiction, Jiu-Jitsu, and so much more.

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Will Szamosszegi (00:12):

Well, Jake, I'm very excited for this conversation. We've, we've talked a number of times before and we've been talking about trying to get on and doing a podcast together, and so here we are, my man.

Jake Corley (00:28):

I'm excited, dude. Thanks for having me.

Will Szamosszegi (00:29):

Yeah. Well, what you've been doing, uh, your story's really incredible. I know that we've talked about it offline, but I think that that would probably be a great place to start just talking through how you got into what you're doing now and, uh, we'll let it flow from there.

Jake Corley (00:41):

Yeah, kind of start off with what we're doing now and give a little brief, uh, background as to kind how we got here. There's been a lot of, lot of turns, a lot of pivots along the way. Um, so co-founded Digital Wildcatters in, uh, 2018 with, with two partners. We essentially, Digital Wildcatters was born out of starting a podcast, and so we started a podcast called the Oil Wheeling Gas Service podcast. And I had been a, a tech founder in oil and gas, uh, a few different times. And we were talking to a lot of Silicon Valley VCs, uh, myself and Colin, uh, a lot of New York VCs about energy tech. And we'd been kind of very actively involved in that community and helping kind of foster and cultivate that community for a while. And everybody said, Where can we go to learn about this?

Jake Corley (01:18):

And there really wasn't a place. And so we started this podcast and we had a bunch of our friends on, didn't think anything of it. It was so niche, we didn't think anybody was gonna listen to it and it blew up. And so with that coupled a long way, we started hosting just little happy hours and stuff at our office. First went out the gate, we had 300 people show up, like, Okay, well this is kind of interesting. So we kept doing that, <laugh>, the events continued to evolve and kind of over time and then we cons, you know, launch more podcasts and then got into video content. We ended up buying some oil wells up in Oklahoma in, uh, like late 2018. And vlogged the whole process that ended up going viral. We were like, Okay, well this is interesting. And so eventually we consolidated everything underneath like the, the digital Walk Head's name, which was really originally just the name of our YouTube.

Jake Corley (01:57):

And just was kind of just doing the whole part-time thing, never really trying to make money on this wasn't supposed to be a business at 2020. We exited everything else that we were involved in, uh, and went all in. And then of course Will goes negative 37 covid hits. Uh, and so it was like, this is the absolute worst time to have done this. But it ended up being like a really good thing because everybody was stuck in their house and they were looking for content. And so we just did what we knew. Um, and just shipped a whole lot more stuff. Launched newsletters, launched more podcasts and things like that. Since then, we've, the events have grown. Uh, we've had over 9,000 attendees at our various events, uh, in Power. You know, the one that we'll probably dive into is really at the intersection of Bitcoin mining and energy.

Jake Corley (02:36):

We have 1200 attendees. Um, it was pretty much like a who's who of anybody who's doing stuff in in bitcoin mining. A lot of the big energy producers there. Now everybody of energy is Bitcoin mining, uh, which is super cool. Gearing up for another, our biggest swing yet, uh, fuse conference that we're having here in October, really bringing together all of energy. It's a huge swing in terms of doing the impossible. So bringing together oil and gas renewables, hydrogen, nuclear battery technology. We're the largest energy tech conference in the world. Uh, and really just solidifying Houston as energy capital, the world. That's, that's kinda where we're at today. You know, like I said, I, I found that a few different companies early on got outta the Marine Corps in 2012. Started my first company in 2013 in oil and gas. Didn't know anything about oil and gas. Uh, so it was kinda like trial by fire. Fell in love with the industry, kind of rinse and repeated a few different times. Met calling in 2016. We were always trying to figure out a way to work together. Uh, he came from the field, uh, just being a rough neck, wearing wire line, things like that. Uh, then he quit his job and we went all in on bunch of different things. Uh, so that's kind of the short version of, uh, kind of our backstory. It's,

Will Szamosszegi (03:35):

It's really interesting. And I, I feel like you have a very interesting view of the industry because you really are within this, this niche as you mentioned, you know, So I'm curious, cuz obviously depending on who you're talking to, you're gonna have a different view on, on the particular industry. But what about this industry are you most excited about? Are there any types of things that you think that the broader, uh, public should be paying attention to? And then maybe even just people who are in the industry, like minors? Like what, what kind of are those critical insights that, that you're kind of seeing in your position here?

Jake Corley (04:06):

Man, I think for the first time in history, at least in modern history, at least in my lifetime, energy is really at the forefront of public conversation. Uh, when it comes to things like climate change and obviously it's close relationship with energy production. Uh, you're looking at things like now, like, you know, really high gas prices and, and people are kind of wondering, and you, you look at like things like Google keywords right now. And a lot of people are really trying to figure out why are things the way that they are. And then you've got the energy crisis that we're experiencing in New England, the energy crisis obviously over in Europe with a lot of the implications between, you know, things like Germany and, and, and uh, Russia. And there's a lot more geopolitical implications between Russia and China and things like that. And so it's interesting.

Jake Corley (04:43):

And so people obviously you, you look at that kind of coupled up with a, you know, a lot of like really, really public goals to kind of get to, you know, like a net zero carbon emissions, some that are extremely aggressive and extremely unrealistic. Um, I can't think of a more important thing to really be working on than helping raise the world's energy IQ both inside of energy and us also kind of uniting, uh, all of energy instead of it being these kind of religious sex of, uh, you know, oil and gas hating renewables and kind of vice versa. And then all the Bitcoin stuff too. Like also just kind of working on the future of like financial policy and really the intersection of that between energy. So I'm super stoked about the, the work that we're doing. I just can't think of anything more important to be working on.

Will Szamosszegi (05:25):

Yeah, and I think what really stood out there is like, when you're talking about renewables versus, um, oil and gas versus whatever, like the different energy sources, it is kind of crazy how tribal that has become. I feel like it has humans, you know, it's kind of in our nature to just be very tribal and you, you know, you see it in politics, we're seeing it in the energy sector. And I, myself, you know, I I I don't come from like a huge career in energy. I've been learning about it through the work that I've been doing in Bitcoin and having to do that for the business, but it's kind of crazy how many times my views have changed on energy sources, renewables, just learning how things operate and work and then how that all ties to value in society. And I think you're so right.

Will Szamosszegi (06:07):

I, I've never heard it put that way, but it has almost become like a religious type of like, I'm planting my flag in the ground and it's like I'm for this and against that. And at the end of the day, it disconnects you from really understanding like what it is. And I think that that's what you're getting at to a certain degree. Yeah, like, like being energy literate and understanding like what it's doing. Like some people just think like, oh, they think about not everyone, but they think about energy in like light switches. Like, oh, like if I turn on this light switch then it uses like this much more energy. But it's not that. It's like what is actually going into powering your house, powering your air conditioning, powering the lights around us. And I think it's pretty clear that if you ask anyone, your standard of living would be a lot worse without energy. And a lot of people in the West, you can't imagine what your life would be like without energy.

Jake Corley (06:57):

Energy is the most important technology that was ever created to be able for us to harness the power of energy to create modern civilization. I look at that as like base layer of civilization. Cause without that you don't have electricity. Without electricity you don't have the internet. Without the internet you don't have all the amazing things that we've been able to do as a modern society. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (07:14):

And even

Jake Corley (07:14):

Production don don't understand that. Yeah. Food production, think about that. Like think about back in the day of hundreds and gatherers of spending your entire day just figuring out we're gonna get your next few meals.

Will Szamosszegi (07:24):

Yeah. Well that, that's like one of the things like with what you mentioned, like with what's happening geopolitically like energy insecurity, thinking about like, hey, if you're a country, you're, you're pretty vulnerable if you're relying on another country for energy, it's almost like a way to wage war. And, and then with all the money printing and then the inflation, it's like, what the hell is gonna happen here? You know, it's

Jake Corley (07:45):

No, it's, it's not, it's not enough to, it's not enough to just have, uh, you know, cheap, abundant, reliable energy. Secure is now one of those kind of requirements and something that everybody's thinking

Will Szamosszegi (07:54):

About. The other thing that's crazy is we've seen like blackouts and things happen at times in the US like it that that's almost like a, um, and you know this better than, than almost anyone else. It's just like the way that it works, it's not like if you need a hundred gigawatts of power insert x number of p amount of power, it's not like you're always gonna need that amount of power. There's gonna be times where you need more than that or less than that. And, and you have to overbid to account for the total needs of whenever it works. And it's just crazy how much people take it for granted that it just works. Things just work. And without people out there working hard and making things work, then it doesn't work. <laugh>, it's just like crazy. It's like if no one grows the food or makes the food, then you don't have food. And people look at it so much as like a zero sum game and they need to take more for their side. Whereas at the end of the day, you just need to produce more. Cause if you produce more, then there's more for everyone. And, um,

Jake Corley (08:47):

And that's, and that's what I hate about, I hate about this whole energy transition term. And I hate that the branding, cuz there's a negative connotation that we're gonna be, uh, getting off of fossil fuels or eliminating fossil fuels in, in my lifetime, in my kids' lifetimes. And I just don't foresee that happening. I'm not saying that it's impossible, but it just, it just doesn't look like it's gonna be likely. What did I do see as an energy addition? Because we're gonna need more energy and perpetuity as the, as the, the world continues to grow. And as energy consumption continues to grow and it's growing dramatically. Uh, so it's not just like, Oh, we're gonna take, you know, all these renewables and replace oil and gas. No, you're gonna have oil and gas as your base load. You can add in a lot more renewables, add in hydro, add in hydrogen, add in nuclear. You know, and that's why we need a lot of innovation. Each one of these, um, each one of these parts of the energy technology sector.

Will Szamosszegi (09:34):

Yeah. And I sh I share that, uh, that sentiment. I think that you're gonna just see more and more energy come online, energy get layered in, and that's what makes civilization more productive, right. You don't become a, you know, type one, type two civilization traveling amongst the stars by harnessing less energy, you know? Yeah. So at, at the end of the day, I think it's important to harness more. I'm curious from your perspective on the energy side, what do you see as like the main pros and cons to each of these energy sources? Like how are you looking at that? Cuz obviously you're gonna have more energy being added over time, but, but what do you see as like the pros and cons to some of these different kinds of energy sources?

Jake Corley (10:12):

Uh, I mean, oil and gas is kind of obvious. It's uh, it's cheap, it's abundant. Uh, it's extremely reliable. Obviously there's the emission side, but if you look at a lot of the work that the oil and gas industry is doing right now, they're doing significant amounts to actually clean that up themselves. And you look at renewables, uh, it's very much, I guess one of the downfalls is that it, it really depends on geographically whether it's going to necessarily work. Um, and there's certain areas where there's like no cloud coverage and, and solar works phenomenal. There's certain areas where there's tons of wind and the wind works, uh, phenomenal. But one of the biggest, I guess achilles heels of renewables is actually storage. It's actually battery storage. And so until we see major leaps and bounds in the battery storage to be able to transition from being just an intermittent power source to being something that can actually be base load in the same way the natural gas or coal is, or nuclear, then I think it's gonna be really, really hard for that to get, uh, more of the market share without sacrificing the reliability that we so like desperately need.

Jake Corley (11:08):

When you look at like winter storm urie here in Texas and you had like, people die, you have people die in Texas in 2021, that's mind blowing due to the fact that we lost power. Okay. So like reliability is super, super important. Hydro obviously you're limited geographically. Uh, geothermal currently limited geographically. There just some new geothermal techniques, but none of those are necessarily commercialized. And so it's a lot of r and d dollars is going into that. I think it shows a lot of promise, but I mean, it's kinda like the ultimate form of renewable energy in my mind. You're just taking heat from the earth, which as long as we're around the heat from the earth, that's going to be there. So, uh, nuclear, super bullish and nuclear, there's a lot of really, really innovative things that are coming out. Uh, I've talked to a couple of nuclear companies this week just looping them into kind of our fuse conference and seeing the innovation that these guys are, are working on. They're raising a significant amount of money, building some really, really cool stuff. Obviously the downfall there is the fact that there's been nuclear accidents and that's, and so everybody is like, ah, I don't really necessarily want that in my backyard. But I think that's a huge mistake. And the technology's come a long, long ways and we've seen a ton of innovation there. If nuclear was created today, we would say this is the most amazing invention ever. And all of our energy problems are solved. But the reality is, you know, people are scared. So

Will Szamosszegi (12:20):

Yeah, it's crazy how divisive like nuclear, like as a power source is cuz everything from like the technology behind nuclear power makes it an ideal energy source. But there are the, the obvious downsides which like people like attack the power source for. So it's, it's, I mean, it, it's a very divisive issue, but it's one of those things where I think that to advance to the next level of human civilization, I think nuclear plays a big part in that. And I don't know like when or how that that really takes off, but I mean, we're sitting on a, uh, as you mentioned, like unbelievable technology, who knows how, how that's gonna play out

Jake Corley (12:58):

<laugh>. Yeah. And, and a lot of the innovation is actually, uh, it's not creating these large power plans that you would, you would kind of think, I think that's gonna be part of it. But a lot of 'em, it's actually really, really small nuclear reactors that could fit into say like a container, right? And you could do like kind of, um, like emergency response, uh, to certain things. And you can power and set up essentially a micro grid, which we had, we'd done that calling in, uh, one of our guys had went during, uh, one of the last hurricanes in Louisiana and did it with, um, set up little renewable, uh, like solar grids, microgrids to help power some of the houses that are lost significant amount of power. You could do the same thing with nuclear.

Will Szamosszegi (13:32):

So kind of changing gears to like the Bitcoin mining side, right? You've been speaking with all these guys in the energy sector, a lot of times, I guess this was more so early on, but for example, when I first really started diving into the industry, so as mining started in 2018, the sophistication around the energy side in the industry was very, very different than it is now, right? Yeah. And so you're over here talking to a lot of energy companies and I've, I've been through that exact same thing going through that education process, explaining, okay, what is bitcoin mining, what is Bitcoin? How does all this stuff tie in? And there are some people obviously in energy who you're gonna see are more innovative, and then you're gonna have people who are more of the laggards like in anything. Yeah. And so you're obviously speaking with a lot of the guys who are the innovators within the energy sector and um, they're going and dipping their toe into mining. And so from your perspective, how are these guys looking at it? Like if you were gonna put 'em on like a track of like how far down the rabbit hole they are, what their general views are on mining? It's kind of a tough question. It's kind of broad, but like what's your general sense of, of where these guys are at and Yeah, I mean

Jake Corley (14:37):

I think it depends. You can't really make any like broad generalizations. Like you said, you've got some people that are just extremely innovative. And this applies to like the application of energy technology across your organization's, uh, period. Not just Bitcoin mining. You have some that are just so cutting edge because they, they truly understand what's possible with technology. And you have other ones that it's, you know, they're oil men, they're not technology guys. Um, and so they don't know they're cash flow. Yeah. They don't, they don't know what they don't know. And so you can't necessarily fault them for that. And so I, I kind of give those guys a lot more grace than I used to. A lot of the larger energy companies, I won't say all of them, but a lot of them are Bitcoin mining and whether they want to talk about it or not, a lot of the oil field service companies are finding ways to do bitcoin mining.

Jake Corley (15:15):

A lot of the renewable guys are finding ways to do bitcoin mining. So it's something that everybody's paying attention to. I think one of the biggest advantages of that is it can dramatically help you improve the economics of assets that necessarily weren't very economical prior. Especially when you're looking at things like flared natural gas, right? You're making absolutely no money, you're having to get flared permits, uh, and then you're also releasing a significant amount of methane into the air. You've got guys like Cruso who've come along and, uh, have, have taken that, take the flared gas, put it into a natural gas generator, use that to to, to mine these data centers. Um, and so I mean now you're able to get some revenue either from the gas or you have some of the operators who are going in and just doing all that themselves. Um, and I don't, I don't know what the numbers look like now, but I know at, you know, $50,000 Bitcoin, I was seeing, um, you know, net max per MCF of like $35. And so when you're looking at gas that you're selling to the market that Henry Ho is $5 an MCF and you can get essentially $35 an mcf. It really begs the question, why would you sell the, why would you sell the gas to

Will Szamosszegi (16:21):

The market? Chase, um, the CEO of cruso, he's been on the podcast before Okay. And he kind of broke down like the incentives, right? For, for the companies who are, are currently flaring and then hey, rather than needing to go with the traditional route and deal with the flare like the, these, uh, the flare gas from these, these wells, you can actually monetize it for Bitcoin mining. It. That's like one of the areas where the incentives are just so clearly aligned. It's like, oh, duh. Like, yeah, you should definitely be doing, like companies should be doing this. And, and uh, obviously cruso like they're, they're incredible. They're doing a lot of work and expanding. And I think that, you know, the more people that do that, the better. I mean, goes back to, to what we were talking about earlier with, at the end of the day, it's like, where are you gonna get value? There's clearly the potential to harness value from an activity like that, the multiple benefits. And so building a business model around that to actually implement it, it's like, Yeah, we should do this <laugh>.

Jake Corley (17:16):

Yeah, it's, it, it's a no brainer and we really should be flaring absolutely easier natural gas. And so I, I think that, I think we'll see that happen. Uh, i, I don't know if it's realistic, say the next few years, but eventually,

Will Szamosszegi (17:27):

Yeah. And aren't there like a lot of, or I guess you might understand that economics better. Like my current understanding is that a lot of times when there's flaring going on, there's not like a lot of power there that like in these wells for example, like maybe like, like one to five megawatts maybe, right? And so like you kind of have to build a business model around that where yeah, it's not like you're going and partnering with like utility or a large energy company and building like a mega facility. It's more so building these more modular type

Jake Corley (17:56):

Should

Will Szamosszegi (17:56):

You should look that you can put by the

Jake Corley (17:58):

Wells, you should it, it depends. It depends on the well, and you really have to know that kind of going in. Uh, if you want to be the best, most efficient bitcoin mining operation and you're starting kind of from scratch, going out necessarily buying wells, um, I wouldn't say necessarily is your best bet and necessarily you can really like make a lot of money on the buy cuz what you wanna, you wanna secure is, uh, reliable and most cheapest power you can possibly find. And so I think in a lot of ways going on grid can do that, and especially with some of these, these power purchase agreements and some of the demand response stuff, like some of the consumer riot and some of these other guys, you make money whether you're on or you make money, whether you're off. And to me that is a great, great business now, but if you're an EMP and you're looking to like, you know, reduce your carbon footprint and just make a little extra cash or you're not making anything currently, then yes, mining off grid is, is is fantastic.

Jake Corley (18:44):

Not saying that you can't build able with substantial operation being solely, you know, big one mining off of flared gas, but I think it comes with a lot of demand expertise and I think it's gonna be oil and gas guys, like the guys like, uh, over J Energy, Justin Ballard or my management or um, you know, Griffin and I've been pining over at uh, Olympia Creek guys who've got significant amount of experience in oil and gas. You can really, you're not gonna have like, you know, Chinese minors come in and buy all these oil and gas wells and have absolutely no oil gas experience and like thrive. Like you're gonna have <laugh>. It's much, it's much harder than people think it is. So

Will Szamosszegi (19:14):

If you were to, one of my favorite things to like get people's takes on, I I I have two, it's a two part question for you. It's like a prediction question, right? So like let's say that you're dropped into the future and you're looking at how the energy sector looks and at how the bitcoin mining industry looks. And we can take these one at a time. Let's, I'd actually be more curious to start with the energy side. So like you're dropped in 10 years from now, it, it's 2032. What do you think is the biggest difference energy operates in that type of a world 10 years into to the future versus what you're seeing today?

Jake Corley (19:49):

My vision for the future, and it's a big part of our mission as a company would to see more collaboration and to see energy come together under a single banner because we're all solving the same problems. What we're not really working together in the capacity that we should be. And so my hope is that you would see, and you're seeing a lot of this, you're seeing a lot of oil and gas companies diversifying their portfolios to become more of like energy, more broader energy or like resource companies, you know, so they could have, the product lines could look like oil and gas, hydrogen, they could get into nuclear, they can get into hydro, they can get into all sorts of things. You're seeing a sit like Dow Chemical for example, just partner with X energy to be able to lower their missions through, uh, these small modular nuclear reactors. And so you're seeing a lot of this collaboration, I think we need to see it like a hundred x over. Um, so that's my vision, uh, for, to where these energy companies really do become, you know, they do diversify their portfolios of products that they're delivering to the public.

Will Szamosszegi (20:48):

Got it. So it's more like, rather than there being like the oil and gas companies and then the solar companies or whatever and the hydro companies. Yeah. It's more so like, oh, you're an energy company, you have some here, some there, some there. Yep. And okay, interesting. And then on the Bitcoin mining side, same type of thing, you know, right now, so the next having is coming up in just under two years, 20, 24 in May I believe. So in terms of having cycles that, that puts us at a pretty interesting time. Cuz 10 years from now you're gonna be Yeah. Three havings in, right? Yeah. So

Jake Corley (21:21):

I think so,

Will Szamosszegi (21:22):

Yeah. So what do you think the mining sector looks like at that point in time?

Jake Corley (21:26):

10 years? Dude, I think you're gonna have so, so much capital that's gonna flow into the space that you're probably gonna see massive consolidation. We've already seen it, we've already started to see it, especially with, with some of these companies going bankrupt recently and some of these organizations just joining governing people up. But I think you're gonna see it like the ones who are able to access the cheapest capital and then build projects on the cheapest energy, the ones you're gonna thrive. And so I'm sure you're gonna have a couple just absolute behemoths like the riots and the Argos and, and probably some more that are just gonna pop up outta the woodwork. And then I think there's probably not gonna be a whole lot in the middle. And I think you're gonna have a whole lot of these, the, the smaller mining shops

Will Szamosszegi (22:05):

That that's, yeah,

Jake Corley (22:06):

It's just extrapolating out kind of what we have now, but I think just at a much larger scale.

Will Szamosszegi (22:10):

Yeah. Like, and we've seen a lot of consolidation too, like in the industry, like not just in the mining sector Yeah. But like across the entire ecosystem and Yeah. That, that definitely makes sense. I mean, think about where bitcoin's gonna be at that point. Yeah. Price per Bitcoin.

Jake Corley (22:25):

Wait, what's your, what's your, what's your 10 projection?

Will Szamosszegi (22:28):

I'm gonna sound like a lunatic if I say out loud. <laugh>. Well, I'll caveat it with this. I think that it also will depend like where in the cycle you are at that point. So like, it depends if we're really in like a, a bottom of that, of that bull run or bear run or bull or bear market. But I, I, I'm gonna sound like such a lunatic here, but I think that at some point within three ha like within three havings, so that means like basically within the next 12 years that I think you're gonna see a peak price of, uh, 10 million per coin. Okay. Which sounds like absurd. I

Jake Corley (22:59):

Don't, I don't think it's unrealistic. I don't think it's unrealistic. I was gonna be a little bit more conservative and be somewhere between 500,000 and a million would be kind of my guess. But I would not be surprised if it was closer

Will Szamosszegi (23:09):

To 10 and, and, and if it's, and for it to actually reach that, the assumptions there is is that we've made the full transition to Bitcoin being like the reserve currency or reserve asset of the world. So just like how, right now, right now it'd go into economics, it's crazy cuz you know, everything is tied the dollars like the reserve currency. But then with all the shit that's happened with Russia and like, you know, freezing foreign reserves, I think that we're in like a Breon Woods three. It's a separate conversation though, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the, the role that Bitcoin plays, if it's going to be like that much per bitcoin, everything in the world I think is going to be priced in like, like Bitcoin and Satoshi. I think a lot of currencies are going to fail, especially if there's like a World War ii and then only the top most trusted currencies are gonna be the fiat currencies that remain and Bitcoin's gonna gobble them up in terms of the value because it is going to be the only and most transparent monetary system in the entire world.

Will Szamosszegi (24:04):

Like no one knows how many dollars are gonna be printed in any currency. Like people growing up in this age, it's like you trust technology, you trust that, you know, when you put a complicated math question into your calculator on your phone that it's gonna give you the right answer. Right. People trust stuff and it works. And so would people trust, like once people actually understand how money works, it's like there's no way that it's gonna stay like that forever. People are eventually gonna figure it out. You look at other countries where they had failing and collapsing currencies by survival, the people had to figure it out. Like us in the west, we've never had to figure it out. Yeah. Because, you know, the currency works. We don't lose 90% plus of our value in like a month, you know, so you do and you realize, oh wait, everything is five times as expensive, then you know, you're gonna be forced to learn. And so it's almost like, rather than giving like an exact timeline, it's like, yes, I understand the having cycles, but how long until people start figuring stuff out and how long the pyramid and the money printing and the, the Ponzi of the current system last. And, and so yeah. When I, when I lay it all up and then give my price prediction, I sound like a crazy person, but like honestly, I, I would not be surprised if you see a peak of, of 10 million in that amount of time.

Jake Corley (25:20):

Yeah. The transition I think is, it's going to happen. It's also terrifying too, right? To think about completely changing <laugh>, the financial system. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm here for it. I'm along for the ride, so we'll see how it goes. <laugh>.

Will Szamosszegi (25:36):

Yeah. Well another analogy that I give is like, imagine like when Bitcoin started, right? Like it was basically just an idea, a white paper, and then people understanding and learning and then joining it. It's an open movement. There's no marketing budget for Bitcoin. Yeah. There's no, it's not like a centralized coin or anything else and you've just seen so many people get behind it. So you said between 2010 when like pretty much no one in the world knew what it was mm-hmm. <affirmative> to where it was in 2020 and it's on the world stage, everyone's talking about it. And then you see this huge run up from Covid that is just defying the odds. Like that's impossible. It's like if you talk to the biggest bull in the entire world for Bitcoin in like 20 11, 20 12, 20 13, and you had to make a 10 year prediction. I don't think that there's like a sing, maybe there's like a handful of people who could have predicted how far it really would get in the next 10 years.

Will Szamosszegi (26:26):

But like, dude, 10 years is a long time. I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative> a lot, A lot can happen in 10 years. And really at the end of the day, you know, there's like a group of like, like let's say like a thousand people like around the world that like, if they start making big moves towards it, it'll be like rolling, you know, know. Yeah. More people. It's like you kind of have to adopt it cuz people are smart. They're gonna, they're gonna figure it out. If you're a Russian algar and your assets are getting seized, what do you do? It's like, it's pretty crazy.

Jake Corley (26:54):

Same with a lot of these, these, you know, people in Ukraine that were trying to flee the country, the country locked down all assets. And there's so many stories of people who had Bitcoin, Ethereum, NFTs and stuff that they were able to liquidate, you know, to be able to give the hell out, right?

Will Szamosszegi (27:07):

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and then this whole thing, not your key is not your crypto. I mean that's, that's a powerful thing, like learning how to take custody of, of the value you've created mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, not, not having it be seized. I mean, like, it's kind of crazy to see like everything that's happened. And I, I messed this up too. I mentioned this the other day, but I had coins on Celsius when it blew up. You know, like I learned a very valuable lesson about not your keys, not your crypto. And it's something that I'm never gonna forget, but like, it's, it's something that you really realize, like, wait, you can't get your money back. It's like, it's like it's gone. It's like, you know what I mean? It's like yeah. And it could be like that for anyone, you know? And it's happened to many people around the world. It's just that we've been, we've been lucky living, you know, here in the US during this whole time.

Jake Corley (27:54):

It sounds like, it sounds like you're not just in Bitcoin, but you're in a lot of other things. I'm kind of curious to see like you're taking, like what are you bullish on? Because the deeper I've gone into Bitcoin, the less personally interested I've become in kind of all other forms of crypto. Where as in the beginning it was, I was just like so bullish on the movement kind of as a whole, but I've kinda lost faith in certain things. Not saying that there's not applications and stuff, but I just think that the implications and the importance of Bitcoin is so substantially larger than everything else, that if I'm gonna spend my time on something, that's where I'm gonna spend my time.

Will Szamosszegi (28:25):

A hundred million percent the same with me. Yeah. I, I think everyone goes through that journey, like everyone at their own pace. Like you get in through Bitcoin, you hear about it, then you hear about Ethereum, then you hear about all these other possibilities, but then you realize that, oh, what's the killer application for, for blockchain technology? It is Bitcoin. Like it's the only one that is truly proven in one market dominance in what it's going for or proven like. It has all the signs like of where it can go, which is kind of the world that we talked about a little earlier. I mean, on your journey, like how did it go for you? Like when did you first hear about it? When did you kind of, like what phase were you more into like the other cryptos and then

Jake Corley (29:04):

This is always like, this is always a conversation where you get really depressed because you wish you would've had like tons of money to go early in <laugh>. Man, I think I really kind of started getting into it in 2017. I don't remember what the price was of Bitcoin or Ethereum. Um, there's

Will Szamosszegi (29:20):

A huge range in that time. Yeah,

Jake Corley (29:22):

Huge range in that time. Um, started paying a lot of attention to it, man. It was just like everything was going to the moon at that time. And so you're just like, you're just like so bullish in all of it at the same time. You see like all of these, you're still singing now, just like lots of scams that kinda like come to light and then that kind of turns you off to some certain things. And then just so many different coins and protocols that I just feel like don't need to exist. I dunno, just so many, like, just so many shit coins and it just became a major turn off over time and more you pay attention to, to Bitcoin and what it truly means. I mean, it is the most purest form of decentralization that everybody's been preaching. Um, and yet every other coin has a team, has a ceo, has investors, like it's, they're two totally different category. Yeah. You know, and I hate when people are like, they just lump all kind of like crypto together and say that Bitcoin's part of that.

Will Szamosszegi (30:07):

Yeah. It, the analogy I give is like, and I completely agree, I think that they're completely different. That's like saying like, chess and UFC are the same sport. Are both sports? Like Yes. Like you can consider both sports and I have tremendous respect for like, both types of athletes in their own regard. But chess and like tennis or chess and football, those, those are very different activities. Like they're, they're very, very different. And like crypto is like a broad category. It's like, okay, like there's blockchain technology, there's a protocol, whatever, like Bitcoin has achieved success and is still growing at a crazy rate to achieve what it can ultimately do. And what, what I believe it you'll see it do is you'll see it provide truth and transparency to value and how value is looked at in society. I I think that bitcoin's gonna be the first economic constant within economics.

Will Szamosszegi (31:01):

Like, you know, with, with economics isn't really like a hard constant. I think that if you're on a world that's denominated in Bitcoin, then you actually have like some sort of constant that you can have within economics to some degree. Cuz everything right now in economics is broken to a large degree because of the inherent nature of how the monetary system works and how you have the variable of how much money's gonna be printed and, you know, different going back to like subsidies and things like that. So yeah, I mean, it it's kind of crazy to even think about. I'm not saying that I'm a hundred percent right, although I truly believe if I was like to put money on it, I would bet on this future. But yeah, I I think that we're just so early. It's like the last big one, early 2140, like 2140, the last bitcoin's gonna be,

Jake Corley (31:44):

We'll be long dead by then. <laugh> <laugh>.

Will Szamosszegi (31:48):

Yeah. Yeah. Figures. Have you seen this? Um, this shit with the AI from Google, which

Jake Corley (31:53):

Ai

Will Szamosszegi (31:53):

Oh my gosh, this, so this is like recent news. It's been kind of like on my mind. Like it's, it's pretty scary. Like, so Google created this ai, it's called Lambda. I, i, I wanna let people, I don't wanna like taint their, their uh, their view of it, but go look up, like if you're listening, look up the conversation that the Google engineer had with the AI and just listen to the responses that this AI gives and then try and think if you or anyone that you know, could have given more intelligent and human response. Like, it, it was crazy the type of responses that this thing was giving. And like, it went and, and like it's gotten a lawyer. It's saying that it's a human, It's like saying that it's conscious, like it's crazy, crazy scary shit. And like, this has all happened, you know, this is all like real time, like the stuff that you're

Jake Corley (32:46):

Here, The question I have is like, does it make us smarter as a civilization or does it make us dumber? Right? And so with things like Google or, okay, let's look at Prego. Pre-internet knowledge retention was kind of king because you're essentially, you're reading things, you're learning things, and you have to be able to recall that recall is not something that's necessarily so valuable anymore because you have the entire world at your fingertips at any given time and you can pull whatever information you want. So, Oh man. Yeah, it's something I I think about a lot, especially with, with two kids, um, that are now starting school. Uh, one's four, one's two, and just the way that they learn, the way they consume information. My four year old is absolutely brilliant and all of the information, and I always said I would like never let my kids just have an iPad or whatever and spend all day on there, but all the stuff that he watches is educational.

Jake Corley (33:36):

And so now he's talking to me about thermodynamics and hydro hy hydraulic cylinders and things that are biodegradable. And he knows all 50 states and facts about the states. He knows all of the planets and facts about the planets. He knows so many different things that I never learned at that age because he has access to so much more information than I did. But then when it comes to the question of ai, it's like, do we lose kind of our, our critical thinking skills to be able to think for ourselves? And I have a good example. We use some AI copywriters that kind of help us, you know, we produce so much content in coming up with like captions or, or various things becomes really like tiresome. And so using some AI writers to help us with like, hey, here's kind of like a fuzzy idea of what we want. And then it helps us to kind of like rewrite it, uh, which is good, but at the same time, would I be better served to pick up the two copywriting books that I have and just be a better copywriter? Right. So AI is, it's interesting man. It's, it's, I'm, I'm kind of curious to see how the applications that, I'm kind of curious to see the implications of us as a society, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now. Well,

Will Szamosszegi (34:38):

I think what's interesting when you think about AI is like the rate of improvement, right? Like for, for the human brain, it's very difficult for you to think about things in exponential terms. Like we all of a sudden went from barely building a machine that could, like, could play chess to now your smartphone could be Magnus Carlson, the number one chess player in the world. Yeah. You know, like it gets that good that fast. And there was I think Alpha Zero and um, these are like two like, um, AI that like played chess. I'm forgetting the other one. Alpha Zero, like was crushing like the best chess players in the world. You just couldn't beat it like a human couldn't beat. Yeah. And then there was like another AI that went and crushed Alpha Zero, and now there's like another one like stock fit and like these AI are just so good at the game where it's like, it's impossible for a human to even beat like a lower level, like top ai.

Will Szamosszegi (35:28):

And so looking at the rate of improvement of how fast these go, like on an evolutionary time scale, it's nothing. Right? Yeah. Like what's like, like 20, 30, even a a hundred years on an evolutionary time scales like nothing and things aren't increasing at like an exponential rate. And so like, it goes, like when you look at Elon Musk and like some of his predictions and things like that, it's, it's kind of a question of like, like he's he's scared of it. He, he his solution's like, oh, merge with it. Right? And so going back to what you said earlier with your, with kids nowadays, right? You have kids with access to this information. You're not living in a world of like rote memorization and recall. You're of like, how to problem solve and think about how much your kids can learn when they're interested in something.

Will Szamosszegi (36:08):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's not like being forced to go to school and listen to someone that they don't care about and like, you know, and, and just having to do stuff for a grade because they're being told to. It's like, I'm intellectually curious, I want to know the states, I want to know how the planets work. I want to know X, Y, and Z and it's gamified because of being on like these devices, the next generation's gonna be so much smarter. Like how like we'll look at like us and like our parents or grandparents and think, oh, we're like, we're way smarter than them.

Jake Corley (36:33):

Is it to think that we can consume in one day more information and say, I wouldn't say our grandparents, maybe our great grandparents maybe consumed in their entire lifetime.

Will Szamosszegi (36:41):

Yeah. It's actually

Jake Corley (36:42):

How nuts is. How nuts is

Will Szamosszegi (36:43):

That? Yeah. If you just think about your day to day, and I don't know if like you go through this, but like I'm very aware of the, the dangers of like how addictive it is, right? Like I'll like be like, Oh, I shouldn't use this or I shouldn't use that. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you like open up like an application and you're like, Wow, I ended up just wasting like five minutes or 10 minutes doing that. Like, you have no intention of doing something and you just get drawn into doing it, right? Yeah. And what, what do you think the ramifications of

Jake Corley (37:10):

That are? I struggle with this and it's one of those things where it's like our entire business relies on social media, but there are certain times where personally I will delete like all my personal apps and just kind of go through like a detox because dude, there's so many here, Joe Rogan talk about it all the time. You, you're telling these new documentaries where we are just like killing our brains, killing our attention. It's just like this dopamine hit of like, I need likes, I need attention. Like, it's a love hate relationship to be honest with you. It's just like I know the powers of social media and every business moving forward until there is, you know, something new, whatever comes after social media, whether that's something web three or whatever, it's absolutely essential. I think it's, it's so essential to be successful today. Uh, but at the same time it comes at cost.

Will Szamosszegi (37:53):

Yeah. I mean, I, I do the same thing. I have like the time limit thing on my apps, but now I've even, I'm at the point where it's like I just click through it, you know, it's like, oh, I'm open, okay, click through like, remind me 15 minutes <laugh>, like, and then go through that thing. Oh my gosh, actually, like do you do like any meditation or anything like that?

Jake Corley (38:10):

So I, this is like the eighth time this has come up in the last, I literally came up with lunch again yesterday. No, it is mostly because I just have not made it a habit. Used to do a stoic journal every single morning and I felt like I had so much more control over my days when I, when I did that. So it's not a function of not wanting to do it. It's one of those things that I know I need to do, but I have not made it part of like my daily habit. It's like from the time I wake up, it's like chaos till the time I go to sleep.

Will Szamosszegi (38:34):

Yeah. And to your point, it's like if you're in a routine, it's like working out, right? Like when you're in a routine, it's like you want to go, it's like, Oh, I can't wait to go and like go break up my day and go to the gym. Yeah. But like, if you don't go for, like, for me, my timing is like if I don't go for three days, which normally like that won't happen, but sometimes you're traveling, whatever it may be, if that fourth day comes, like I will feel it being like, uh, like you're kind of tired, like you don't want to go. Yeah. And then I'm just like, no. Like, it's like you just gotta shut, like shut up your brain and just be like, just start getting dressed and

Jake Corley (39:06):

Like, that's how I feel about jujitsu. It's like there's so many, uh, you know, physical benefits to it. But I think there's a lot of like mental health, uh, benefits as well because whenever somebody's trying to choke the life out of you, you can't do anything but be present in that moment. You're not thinking about finances, you're not thinking about work, you're not thinking about all the stressors of life. You're thinking about I need to survive this moment and figure out a way to get out of that. And so that's how I feel, whether it's, you know, with normal working out, whether it's legit jujitsu, it's very much like, I mean, 50% of the value there is is is the mental health kind of aspect of that.

Will Szamosszegi (39:39):

Yeah. How long have you been doing jujitsu for

Jake Corley (39:41):

Four years now. Started, uh, so Colin's been doing jujitsu a little bit longer than I have, was wanting to gimme to come along. Finally, we had a buddy of ours who was gonna try it for the first time and I didn't want him to feel like a, you know, like a fish outta water. I said, Hey, I'll go with you. Um, and so went and practically had a heart attack like in the first three minutes. And so like pulled up my credit card and I said, I'm committing to a year, sign me up for one year. If I don't like it up, I don't quit. Um, but it was more of like, uh, you know, having, having, you know, my first son around that time, uh, wanting to be healthier and just, you know, the one muscle I've been doing body building and weightlifting and power lifting, all that kinda stuff. Um, but have, I've always really kind of neglected like things like cardio. Um, and so now it's totally different. It's like my, my workout regime is, is really built around athleticism and conditioning and really being in the, in the best shape possible so that I can perform better. Um, you know, in jujitsu it's one of those things that I don't know, it's just addicting.

Will Szamosszegi (40:38):

So I, I have never done jujitsu. I'll, I'll start with that, but I've always gotta

Jake Corley (40:43):

Try it, gotta

Will Szamosszegi (40:43):

Try it. I, I've always found it fascinating and I've also, um, like I love watching like the UFC and stuff like that and uh, and mma so I'm curious cuz it seems like you kind of came at it from like a similar type of way. Like, I've played sports my whole life and everything and done, um, a lot of weight lifting, like I've been lifting for at this point. Like I guess it depends on like what you consider the start, like me actually knowing how to lift or just Yeah. Going and trying to bench press incorrectly, but I've been lifting for a while. So like what was your experience going in, like coming in as like, you know, like an athletic guy or a strong guy and going and doing jujitsu, Like were you just getting your ass?

Jake Corley (41:19):

It was, yeah, it was like, it was humbling. Um, yeah, because at first you have no technique and you just have strength and so you kind try to brute force your way into it and you naturally make a lot of really easy mistakes that kind of open you up to just getting wrecked. But I will say that that is an advantage because I, I do maintain a lot of that size, a lot of that strength, and I'm just kind of couple with athleticism. A lot of guys in jujitsu don't work out in the same way that say I do. Uh, and there's a few other guys that, that I know that I train with that are, you know, work out very, very hard and, and try to be in the best shape possible. Uh, and then it's a major advantage because then you can kind of dial it up when you, when you need to. And you, you've got that as compared to, you know, guys who solely just trained jujitsu as kind of like a hobbyist. It's, it's not really kind of comparable. Not saying that, not saying that, I mean, if superior technique always is, is going to win, but you're able to kind of close that technique gap with athleticism. Yeah, especially since I train nogi. So it's, it's, there's no ge uh, you're just in, in

Will Szamosszegi (42:15):

Shorts and no ge like,

Jake Corley (42:16):

Oh yeah. So you don't, you don't wear the kimono, Right. Oh, okay.

Will Szamosszegi (42:19):

So

Jake Corley (42:20):

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot, a lot of people will kind of train either one, uh, or, or, or kind of the other. Um, and so yeah, I made the commitment after, after blowing out my need a competition, I said, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna dedicate myself to, to know ge specifically.

Will Szamosszegi (42:34):

Oh. So is ge more dangerous? Like with

Jake Corley (42:36):

No, I blew it out. Nogi <laugh>. Oh, okay. It was one of those things of like, Oh, you know, I probably shouldn't be doing this and I'm the kind of person who told me I can't do it or I shouldn't do it, and that's what I'm gonna focus my attention on. Well,

Will Szamosszegi (42:48):

Well that's, that's been the biggest thing for me is like, I, like, I've wanted to start, like the, the first thing I would say is time. And so then I'd be like, okay, just, I could reallocate time from like normal working out to doing it. But I would say aside from like the time, it's just the, um, chance of injury. Like, I, I'm just really at a point now where like I'm not competing in sports anymore. Like, I just wanna like, you know, stay healthy. I still do some cardio still, like lift, but I don't want to get like an injury. Like, I, I injured myself one time, actually not weight lifting. I, I stepped in like a ditch that was covered. Like there was grass that covered the ditch. I had no idea. And I just like messed up my ankle for a while and I'm like, Oh man, like this just ruins my quality of life to a certain degree and like having to worry about this. I just don't want any more injuries. So like, that's like stopping me from going and, and getting involved. It'd be so easy to get injured.

Jake Corley (43:37):

Totally ripped my ACL mc in meniscus and a competition. It was like a shotgun going off.

Will Szamosszegi (43:43):

Oh

Jake Corley (43:43):

Man. And that took, uh, that was a long road recovery. Uh, and then I messed up my other knee my meniscus, uh, like eight months ago. Yeah, there's like some sacrifices and yet I'm still, and I'm still training. It hasn't determined me one that, um, but yeah, it's, it's just one of those things you can't get away from, I guess.

Will Szamosszegi (44:00):

It seems like this has been going long. This has been such a fun conversation. You want to keep it rolling, but, uh, I'll ask two more questions. So I guess the, the first one, what's like a, a prediction that you have, particularly for the minors or a recommendation, like something where like if you listen to this, you can walk away with like some piece of like actionable value, you know, like, and obviously there might be some minors out there that already know this, but like from all your experience in the, on the energy side, all your experience on the mining side, there's one piece of like advice that you could give to anyone who's like in mining or in energy. What would that be? I

Jake Corley (44:36):

Think for the minors, the more you can learn about energy, the better opportunity reposition because it is, it is, uh, the lowest cost producer are the ones who are gonna win. And so you need to, you need to understand where you're getting energy from and how to get the cheapest energy. Um, that's the best advice I can give.

Will Szamosszegi (44:49):

And a recommendation to, for them to, like actionably do that. Maybe attend like one of one of the events or in

Jake Corley (44:55):

One of the event just, I mean, yeah, either, you know, consume content, read books, uh, you know, don't fall into the misinformation that the, you know, the public is putting out or things like that this administration are putting out. Go to people who work in energy and and truly educate yourself on, on how old this works.

Will Szamosszegi (45:11):

And so last, last question. What's one belief that you hold to be true that the majority of people would disagree with? And you, before, before you answer it as well, like one of the reasons why I, I like this question is cuz it's like the Peter Teal question, but it, it's a really difficult question to answer because first you have to figure out like, okay, like if the majority of people believe something, you have to have like noticed something that the majority of people don't notice or haven't noticed. So it's like you, you get like a critical insight there and then like if you believe it, then like, there's some type of reason and insight that you have, like for why you believe it and you hold the conviction. So it's really interesting just asking people at the end of episodes because you're speaking with someone who's like very smart, very accomplished in a particular field. They're going and learning a lot of things that everyday person's not exposed to. And then you come forward with like, oh, like here's one thing that I truly believe to be true. And the majority of people would say, like, for example, me predicting bitcoin's gonna be, you know, at a crazy price like that, it's like, okay, well why does he believe it? And so then figuring out like the things underlying why you believe that to be true.

Jake Corley (46:18):

I think, and maybe more people believe this, but I think that there's the difference between believing and executing on it. You can truly create and accomplish whatever you want in this life as long as you are, You have the conviction, the perseverance, and are willing to do what no one else is willing to do. And I've proven that through my career and that's one of the one things that I wanna leave. If I could leave like one lesson for my kids, you know, I do that, you know, kind of by example, kind of going back to the jujitsu, I was having a conversation with a guy on the mat. So you have like, you know, you get done rolling and you're just like, you know, you kinda have these life chats and stuff and my, my four year old's on the side and he's like, you know, you've been bringing them for two years.

Jake Corley (46:58):

And he's like, And I see the work you're doing in your business. He was like, I know that that kid knows what hard work is and he's seen what you're able to accomplish. And I love my life like not to say that, not say that we don't have challenges. And I say that I don't have a significant amount of stress every day, but like we've created something pretty amazing out of nothing. And we've also been able to do that kind of time and time again. Um, and I think it's taking really, really big swings, believing in yourself when no one else will. Believing in yourself against all rational thought. Um, for me to be in the position that I'm in and energy is, is crazy as, you know, a poor boy with no experience, uh, and energy kind of traditionally, which is manifesting shit and putting it out into, into the, the universe.

Jake Corley (47:46):

And I mean, the harder you work, the more lucky you become. And as long as you keep on that path, like you can literally accomplish anything you want. Um, and I, I I'm something I'm so passionate about cause I just know so many people who just absolutely are miserable, you know, and just hate their lives. And it's like you are totally within control of that. And I think so many people play by society's rules or the rules of their culture or the rules that their parents have imposing them or rules that they've imposed on themselves. And I'd just say, fuck all of that and do exactly what makes you happy and no one's gonna give you anything in this life and you have to demand it. And the only way you can like get that is you have to show up kind of day in and day out and, and, and take it, take what's yours. So yeah, I mean there's a lot of people who are like, yeah, you know, I think you can do whatever you want, but if you're not actually doing it, you know, that's, that's difference between ideas and execution. Um, so

Will Szamosszegi (48:44):

A hundred percent yeah or something

Jake Corley (48:45):

You want life, get out there and take it. Uh, and it's not gonna be easy. And this, this generation, I think especially just once, that instant gratification, I've been doing this entrepreneur thing for 10 years now, um, had some high highs and some low lows. Um, and I feel like I've, we've just started to see kind of what I would consider to be, uh, impact, um, success and then also kind of some financial success and 10 years of grinding, 10 years of, you know, running payroll out of your, your checking account and running yourself financially. Uh, having a terrible credit score rolling up, you know, just tons and tons of debt. Uh, having ventures that go under like business partnerships and friendships that fall apart. Relationships that you lose along the way. Like there's so much and through all of that, uh, just having a singular focus on, on the end goal.

Will Szamosszegi (49:31):

Yeah, I think that that's such a powerful message. And I think that a lot of times, like people don't really realize that like the entrepreneurship grind, everyone will say, Hey, it's tough. But I think that there's a lot of the unseen people see the glamor, the outside or you know, what, what was what you accomplish? But they don't see, oh, 10 years of grinding, falling, failing, getting back up learning, getting back up, learning and like, and before you know it <laugh> it's the quote where the, uh, the guys like it, it's not about like, um, it it's not about the outcome. It's more about like who you become on the journey, right? And that's the general sense of the quote. And I think that, you know, at the end of the day, you gotta be grateful for the challenges. Like every single person who's done anything big or achieved big success, they've done it through unbelievable challenges and they're still going through challenges cuz you're either growing or you're um, or you're like falling, you know? And at the end of the day, those people are still working hard and, and you gotta be grateful for the hard work. You gotta be grateful that you can go out there and leave it all out on the line and then the results are just an outcome that happen from that. But like, enjoying the journey, I think is, is the only way, and you know, it's reorienting every part of your life to make the odds of the thing that you're trying to make happen happen the highest possible chance of success.

Jake Corley (50:49):

The big challenge there is, is is to be, um, to be grateful and to be content without being satisfied and complacent. You know what I mean? So you're, you're you're constantly striving for more, but without the, at the same time not getting on the hedonic treadmill of I'll be happier win and really enjoying that journey. So yeah, I definitely, I definitely resonate with that. And I think just the gratitude and, you know, for us even a year ago was, was, was really challenging times within, you know, our business and just remembering what that felt like and just knowing where we're at now and just practicing a lot of gratitude there makes me feel even on my most stressful days are so much better.

Will Szamosszegi (51:29):

Your answer is very similar to, um, you know, Ray Dalio. Yeah. So Ray Dalio, he, I don't think he was asked that exact same question. He was asked like a different question, like one piece of advice or something that you could give. And his his answer was, You can have anything that you want, but you can't have everything <laugh>. And so it's like, decide what it is that you want and put everything out on the line for that. And um, you know, if you want it bad enough and you put enough into that thing that you want, then it, it'll happen, but you can't have everything. So it, I thought it was interesting. Um, saw some parallels in in that between his answer and yours. Yeah,

Jake Corley (52:04):

I love that. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (52:05):

Well man, this is, this has been a lot of fun. We're gonna have to do this again some time.

Jake Corley (52:09):

You'd absolutely appreciate you having man.

Will Szamosszegi (52:11):

Yeah, of course.