Sazmining Podcast: Haseem Awan on how Awesome Living in America is


On this episode of The Sazmining Podcast, Will speaks with Haseem Awan, Haseeb Awan is the CEO & Founder of Efani Secure Mobile, a company that works with ultra-high net worth individuals on their Mobile Security. Previously, he co-founded one of the largest Bitcoin ATM networks. He has been featured on NYT, Techcrunch, WSJ, Hulu, and several international media outlets. This episode covers, traveling, mobile security, growing up outside the USA, money printing, and so much more.


Will Szamosszegi (00:29):

I appreciate you coming on. This is gonnabe a fun, uh, fun episode here. How, how's your day been? Pretty

Haseem Awan (00:34):

Good. Well, uh, you know, um, it's abeautiful afternoon in Puerto Rico, so it's, uh, it's been a wonderful day sofar.

Will Szamosszegi (00:43):

Awesome. Yeah. Well, I'm reallyexcited to dive into your background, what led you to doing what you're doingtoday, but before diving into all those details, I, I'd love to just give youthe space to talk a little bit about your background and your journey up untilthis point.

Haseem Awan (00:57):

So, um, I am a CBA one, I co-founderDell Access Bit. Access is one of the largest bit Canadian network. We had10,000 locations, around half million clients publicly. And then, you know, sowe started that in 2013. I got involved with a lot of earlier projects. I knowa lot of people say why I was in ICOs before they were cooled, you know,

Will Szamosszegi (01:16):

<laugh>. Yeah. I mean even soundslike you've been around

Haseem Awan (01:18):

For a while, A master coin. Uh, yeah,well eight years is pretty much a, like, you know, I don't know, it's like adecades of work in crypto. So got involved to the 13, started a company and,and went to Y Combinator. And so pretty involved with Cryp with the crypto community.And in the meantime I realize that security is being a bit massive vision,cybersecurity in the crypto. Like if you look at all the hacks that happenevery day, give example about like 6 trillion were hacked. Like there were $6trillion worth of damages this year in like, not typical, but overallcybersecurity. So I realized I was getting hacked a lot of times because of bitback from people who will attack you. And the most common attack for me was SimSopping. I got Sims four times. So the people who don't know, basically if youhave an account with team at and t or Rogers or anyone carry, you actually walkinto the store, bribe the person on dark web and they'll transfer you a numberto your number.


So I said, this is stupid problem tosolve. Like, you know, this is like ridiculously easy to kid anyone number.Like literally you just have to pay number $200. And now the number, and if youlook at my number, my number is my social security number now. Like everythingin linked to my telephone number. So I said, what do these rich and famouspeople do, right? Like if I'm ordinary person, like, so I said it's likeeveryone eating the same McDonald, like there's no like a fair amount for that.There's no like <inaudible> or there's no like, uh, five star hotel. It'slike everyone is getting fit in economy class. And I said, why? They're not abig spare cell phone services for people. So realize it's not easy to do it.So, uh, there's something called virtual carriers in the US where you can buybandwidth from big carriers, then build something on top.


So example is you buy space from AWSand you build Dropbox on top. So you better build a better ui, better feature,better customer support. And that's what we did. So we built around security.We want to be like, uh, bullet cell phone service where we take theresponsibility, you call and you get connected to someone. 60 seconds,something happens. We don't say, Hey, I'm sorry we send you a letter of, notsend you a letter of claim. Uh, not, no, nothing happens so far. But our goalwas to best build the best secure cell phone service and more around privacytoo. That privacy, like we were not sell, like we make money by selling to yourather than selling you. So that has been my background and over the past,like, you know, one year I've been thinking about how do we delegate people toown their own data so there's no single point of failure. Uh, so that has beena mission so far.

Will Szamosszegi (03:32):

I mean this is something that I feellike you've heard a lot in, in the industry as a whole, especially cuz youknow, dealing with crypto, bitcoin, these types of industries are much moretechnology driven. Like the people who are in them are just much moresophisticated when it comes to understanding technology. And so it is crazy tohear though that like sim swapping how easy it actually is. Just from, from myperspective, it sounds like to protect yourself, you might wanna just call upyour provider and say, Hey, can you please put me on some, like, I guess Iwould ask you, what, what can you do to protect yourself? Because that seemslike a massive vulnerability to have being sim

Haseem Awan (04:10):

Swabbed. You'll be trust. Like a lotof carrier CISO and top level regular, they're our clients. They don't trust onservice, they work with us either. They work with those companies. So thechallenges, it's not a how it works. I'll give you example of a credit cardright now. Credit card machines are everywhere. So like, there may be a creditcard machine in Puerto Rico, Spain, Barcelona, like, you know, uh, Argentina,and they all operate in Visa network. So now imagine William is a very highrisk client, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's not possible totransmit that information everywhere in the world. Similarly, how that's howcarriers work. So you can say then, hey, you know, I don't want you to port mynumber, but that's similar to putting a small piece of paper on your creditcard or writing by a marker that, hey, do not swipe this card.


Now when the, the card gets swiped onthe machine, the machine doesn't know, understand the note. So even if you puta note on the, on those systems, they're not designed for high value clients.Uh, it's like ev think about, it's like every Toyota car or every growth wiseeven does not come with a bulletproof protection because that's not a generaluse case. We only work with <inaudible> people like our customers aregenerally trying to help ultra high net worth worth. And for companies itdoesn't make sense for them to cater to that 1% because they cannot extractthat amount value from them. So like, to give you example, there may be 1million clients who are putting your customers just to give example, andthey're probably 400 subscribers, 400 million subscriber in the us So themarket like less than 0.25%. So do you think every McDonald will have like aburger steak sandwich because 0.05% people want that. So even if they sell for$20, the economics do not make sense for them. Yeah. So that's why they wouldtake any kind of liability. And if you look at your cell phone contract, itspecific says that if anything goes wrong, we are not not responsible and we dosell your information. So they're very explicit about it, uh, because they donot want any kind of liability.

Will Szamosszegi (06:04):

Yeah. So, so if I'm saying this backcorrectly, if you're one of those customers, like let's just say Verizon,insert any of 'em, you've got all these clients and in order to service allthose clients, you can't put very, very high level security on every single onebecause then your costs are gonna be too high. So inevitably there's a subsetof high value clients, like outta that million you could have, you know, like athousand big targets that could even say, Hey, I'm worried about SIM swapped.Please protect me. And still the a nefarious actor might be able to get aroundthat if they play the system, right? Because there are holes. Did I say thatcorrect correctly or am I missing something?

Haseem Awan (06:44):

Correct. No, you're correct. It'slike, you know, everyone goes through like a secondary check on immigration.Our border will get clogged down, you know, system are not designed this waybecause this requires a lot of revamping. And uh, I'll give you a simpleexample. Like even though I don't know how, when chips were introduced, I thinkit's like being 10 years or so when we have credit card chips, but you know, alot of credit card processes to process those like, you know, uh, you know,swipe. So, so the challenge is that, you know, either you just shut down allthose swipes and that will basically result in like, I don't know, like 30%,40% loss or something. Right? Cuz people do want to survive. Yeah. Or you justsay, oh, I'll let it go and I'll deal with the fraud.

Will Szamosszegi (07:25):

Wow. Oh, so the, the whole processwhen you're dealing with like high value clients, for example, like let's saythat like I, I know some people for example, who've been sim swapped. So let'ssay that they're a potential client who's worried about it, it's happened tothem, they've lost a lot of money, and if there's certain things that you can'tshare, like, you know, secret sauce like feel, don't feel pressured to share.But I'm curious, like when you're speaking to them, like how do you assure thatyou protect them? Right? Because they, from their perspective, they said, Hey,the telephone companies, they couldn't protect me. I mentioned I didn't want, Iwanted, I'm worried about Sims swaps, I'm worried I might be Sims Swap, pleasemake sure that someone can't sims swap me. And then they still get Sims swap.What's gonna give them that assurance that hey, some other outside entity couldprovide that service for them?

Haseem Awan (08:12):

Correct. So, uh, I think we are beenin business for so long, uh, like I won't say we are long as at and t but weare here for almost three years now and we have a hundred percent protection onour card. Last one. No, I'm not saying it, it cannot change. But here's thechallenge. If something happens with you on T-Mobile, I doubt if you'll go to astore and they say, I'll cover your law and our case, we have an insurancepolicy for you, if something goes wrong, you're covered to $5 million. Youknow, ah, our staff is entirely based in the US So if not like someone in<inaudible> outsource who does not have any idea, everyone who gets hiredan access to account is security cleared. So we do everything again and we dothe same authentication method that a typical crypto transaction would have togo through that, you know, it's a very high risk clients and that's why wedon't offer multiple plans.


Like if you go on a website, we onlyhave two plans and one plan we don't even show on the website because we don'teven offer it to public. It's like high price. It has much more protection. Andbecause we don't believe that public needs it, like, you know, the people whoneed it, we know them and contact them directly. Um, but even for regular plan,we only have one plan hundred dollars per month or 900 per month. And we don'toffer you Netflix, we don't offer you like Hulu or those things or device plan.And that's when mistakes happens because people have to make changes every day.We just say one plan. The only reason when people will contact us is because ifthey are leaving, leaving the service and then our entire army or our entire like,you know, thing go off, okay. You know, lot their own happening here. But ongeneral clients, they have to make it convenience because people want toupgrade their plan, they want to add family, they want to have discounts, theywant to random stuff. So they have to make a system that works for everyone.Otherwise they have to train their employees, I don't know, maybe a hundredthousand employees on a highlight. The security and the churn in thoseindustries are very high.

Will Szamosszegi (09:57):

So, so I guess taking a step back,one thing that you mentioned that I'm, I'm actually really curious to dive intoas well, is your experience at Y Combinator. Yeah, Y Combinator is one ofthose, uh, accelerators that it's almost like the, uh, like the i the Harvardor like an Ivy League Yeah. For startups and yeah. You know, I, I don't knowwhat the exact acceptance rate is, but I I I'm sure it's like only the cream ofthe crop. It, it's probably got a lower acceptance rate than, than a lot ofthose top universities. So from the startup side and actually having gotten inand then gone through that process, can you talk first off how you got intothat program, uh, like what that whole process was like, and then later on wecan dive into what that program was actually like when you were in it.

Haseem Awan (10:41):

Sure. So my concept of Silicon Valleywas actually the Valley, right? Like, I thought there would be like a smallcouple of roads. Like I had no idea what Silicon Valley and I thought it wouldbe a Valley and my background. Like I moved to Canada in 2010 from my school,from Pakistan. So, and we got into Y two 13. So it was like literally like twoyears after one year or two years after my graduation, you know, wow. Uh, thatI'm into, in, into yc. And uh, I, we only applied to one incubator. Myco-founder Mo applied to that and it changed my life. Like, you know, like Ithink, uh, accepting it like it's like five harder than Harvard or something.So the chances of Harvard, whatever the chances are YC is like five timehardware or something. Start

Will Szamosszegi (11:20):

Hardware. Okay. Yeah. So you knew thestaff I

Haseem Awan (11:22):

Know one point of time. So I think inour batch, I think there were like 10,000 people who applied and 85 people whogot in like clearly like, like super, super, super tough, right?

Will Szamosszegi (11:32):


Haseem Awan (11:32):

Wow. Um, so I didn't realize how bigit was to be honest. When I got in after I got in, right? Once I got, I say,holy shit man, this is like big right? <laugh>. Um, cause I'll give youexample. Like our, we had dinners and our dinner were like, you know, okay, oneof the speaker on dinner, Peter Thiel. Now I admire that guy for a long time.Okay? You know, and now, now he's in front of you, right? And talking about youcan ask him question directly. And at that time, cryptocurrency was very, very,uh, hard, right? So it's still hard, but I just said for early in, early days,and you would talk about, you know, like, what do you think about, because hehad a plan. He had a company called So I thought, okay, what do youthink about cryptocurrency?


It was very, very interesting tolearn his, his opinion on that. Then Mark Zuckerberg, mark Zuckerberg hiredDavid Marcus, I specifically remember mm-hmm. <affirmative>, who was uh,head of messenger at that time. And I think he came from PayPal or something.And my, I asked Mark Zuckerberg likely, did you hire him to build acryptocurrency platform? <laugh>? And he kind of like, you know, at thattime dive the question, but after two years they came out, right? Yeah.<laugh> and like otherwise, like Dropbox, uh, CEO J Houston. And my backmate was Juan who started a company called ipf Fs, uh, file Point. So he was mypassionate, right? Wow. So now there's a guy who is building decentralizedcellphone net, uh, decentralized storage. And one guy has built one of thelargest hosting company. So I ask him, what do you think about decentralizedstorage, right? <laugh>. And now you have two people who you believe arethe best people in the world to talk about are in front of you.


So I think this kind of interaction,like our bag was really good. We have a lot of company that I see in thisbillboard, like, you know, you pass by, uh, in like highway, uh, 1 0 1, Ibelieve it's in San Francisco. And you see that, you see billboards with acompany that what your batch material is starting out. So it's just a nostalgicfeeling, right? That hey, you may have heard about block stack, you knowmm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, block stack. Have you heard about they're also my ate just in term of crypto, right? You see those companiesstart off at project and I think my entire project, my entire experience waslike life changing personally. It was life changing for me. You know, I used toread Paul Graham lessons and I often talk to him in person. And uh, the artinteraction was, again, it was a life like for me to change my life. If I haveto calculate like, you know, what was the life changing event and I'm countingon fingers that were probably one of them.

Will Szamosszegi (13:55):

Yeah. I mean that, that's incredible.Look, cuz a lot of times I, it's hard to draw the parallel cuz so few peoplehave gone through that experience. As you mentioned, the acceptance rate is solow and you really are dealing with like the cream of the crop. I mean, a lotof the best companies in the world go through that accelerator. So, uh, some ofthose stores are credible, like the networking, it's almost like the reason whyyou go to college, right? For a lot of people out there listening, it's like,you go to college, not so much. Cause you're gonna learn some mind blowing factin a classroom or that you're automatically gonna get hired for the best job.It does help if you go to a good university, but it's more so for that net andthe friendships you build and everyone that you meet when you're going throughthat. And so, yeah, I can only imagine that going through something like yc uh,for a startup, just being able to network and, and meet and learn from and talkto some of the, the brightest minds in the entire world of business. I thinkthat that is just like an incredible r o i, whereas I'm not necessarilyconvinced on the traditional schooling system, I'm being quite honest in, interms of the value of that. But, um, I could see something like that going throughan accelerator with that type of

Haseem Awan (15:01):

Network. Hundred percent. And I thinkwe all about like when you, uh, like my background is like, I came fromPakistan, I told you, right? So like, it was always like, we used to listenabout these people and these are the poster, like, you know, people would havea movie star and I would have a poster of like a, you know, a book, right? Uh,like a PayPal, just to give you example. So one other thing is my grouppartner. So every person assigned to a group partner, and my group partner wasGary Tan. And Justin Can, so I'll give you example. Like just in Can isbasically the founder of Twitch, right? Yeah. I remember specifically like hewas preparing for Burning Man and we saw the news. Uh, so we were just like anew interactive and this guy sold like a billion dollar while we were in thebadge.


Like, you're sitting in front of aguy who sold this company for a billion dollar and he is giving you time. Howawesome is this? Right? He can teach you all the things of gaming, right? Likethis is how <inaudible> one of the greatest, like, you know, investor nowhe's the CEO of, of, uh, Y Combinator, he's my group partner, right? And thosethings, for me, it was like, I always think about like, which kind of peopleare those, right? Like, who builds those companies? How will, if I'm looking atWill, like, I may have seen him on the tv, but I'll see, oh, how what does willeat right? What does music he does, like how do he live, right? Like what doeshe do every day? That basically gives him super, super power to some awesomething. But if I spend a team with Will, I'll just say Will is probably justlike me.


Uh, he has like 10 fingers. Like, youknow, like he has two eyes, he just is very focused, right? And these are thingthat he do every day, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's like a body.You see like a guy who goes to a gym and he has a really good body and you say,oh man, how did you build such kind, kind a body and you spend like a week withhim? Say, okay, I can actually do that. It's not like difficult. So for mepersonally, and again, this is kind of emotional for me because it changed mylife, right? Yeah. Like, I was able to get into us because of, uh, because ofwhat I see. I was able to build connection like Tech Crunch. You got mentionedin Tech Crunch, I used to read TechCrunch <laugh> and now my neighbor ison TechCrunch. Yeah. And, uh, so all those things, man, like, you know, it's,um, again, I don't wanna emphasize, but I recommend strongly someone who wantsto change his life, they should go to yc. If I have a mission between likegetting my scholarship in Yale, like, you know, uh, any i school leagueStanford, I'll probably drop there and go to a white

Will Szamosszegi (17:13):

Fee. Now that, that's an incrediblestory. And, and I think that those lessons that you just taught it, a lot oftimes, especially like if, if you're not in those circles, it's, it's very,like you look at it and you don't really see like, okay, like how is it thatthat part, like that was a perfect example of just like the gym body example,just being around that environment. I feel like you learn so much and yourealize, hey, this is actually attainable or I can put myself on this path if Istart taking on these habits. So my, my question is, is when you went andstarted meeting all these people who were just, were unbelievable highachievers and you started seeing how they, they acted like, you know, Justinfor example, or Gary, what were some of the things that you noticed that werecommon traits or common habits among the people that were in that environmentat yc?

Haseem Awan (18:00):

I think honesty was one of thebiggest. I would say like if you have to pick up one thing, honestly, like alot of times we don't, we are not honest with our business or honest with ourthings. Like I may want to achieve the same body, but I may not be willing toput the work in it and focus mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, like howstraightforward it was. Uh, what I realized is like, you know, we start writingdown things, you know, like in a business like simple is better is better. Themore simple your business is, the better. You know, like what is one thing thatyour business do? Like in our business, like, you know, we provide secure cellphone service and we said, oh, can we provide them like a American Express kindof experience where you, we can take in their calls and you know, like, uh,book hotel for them because we are premium service, right?


Can we book hotel for them? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, can we be the assistant and everything then man, no. Oh,can we a privacy focused phone? No. And I said, man, we are one thing. We aresecure mobile service man. We were building bitcoin ATM company. Uh, we hadlike all those kind of feather coin name coin, like all those, oh can you be athese, can you add these coins to our machines? Some of them we should haveadded, but at the same time we just say no, we only do Bitcoin atm. That's it.Oh, can you issue loans on this? No, we don't do that. We just do one thing butdo it really well. So focus and you have to do same thing over and over again.And that brings me to the movie of Karate game. If you have watched that movie,a guy has to do like everyday same punch over and over again and then he getsperfect and you see man stupid, like you do it five times.


Oh, I'm pretty good at it. No man,you're not good. You have to keep on repeating every day. And it's like, samewith Jim, right? The reason I'm giving Jim examples cause what's easy, right?Like it's not about like if I have to put like a 10 hour on a row in a, in a,in one go in a gym, it'll not have the same impact, which will have like onehour each day for the 10, 10, 10 days. Yeah. So similarly in like startup two,like you have to show up every day basically just grind it every day. Andfrankly, one thing about startups, what I've seen is this is like totally differentfrom it. Like you actually have to love what you do. If you just do it frommoney, you'll be disappointed because there's a lot of times where there aremuch more money outside in other things that you want to chase. And it's likea, so it's like again, sport, right? You don't play soccer because you wannamake money playing soccer. You play it so passionately be like, you become sobig at good at it and then you, that's how you make money off it. The money thebyproduct.

Will Szamosszegi (20:12):

Yeah. That beautifully said. And Ithink that that, that is one piece that I've thought time and time again, likestarting a company, being an entrepreneur, unless you love it, like youshouldn't be doing it for the money. Cuz if you're doing it for the money,you're not gonna be able to really give it your all and, and do it properly. Ifeel like a lot of times people will look at like an entrepreneur and they'llsay, Hey, I want to be an entrepreneur. Or they might just go and do somerandom idea to make money. But if you're in it for that, you're not gonna stickthrough, for example, the the bear markets in, in the crypto industry andyou'll give up and at the end of the day you gotta become world class. Youcan't, you can't just go and be, be like a hobbyist in something if you want tobe the best at it, is maybe another way to think about

Haseem Awan (20:51):

It. Well certainly like, as I said,like with the gym, right? Like I think maybe within like two months you may notsee anything in your body, right? Yeah. <laugh> and maybe you take threeyears, right? So it takes a lot of time and dedication and perseverance. But anything,anything you wanna do, there's a very famous quote I have read somewhere, findwhat you love and let it kill you. You know, <laugh> like obviously it'sbasically you just be love, passionate about what you do and you just keep ondoing it and money will come. But if the own, if you're, if you're cheating themoney, I think in us it's much easier to make money to alternative means. Youcan go into real estate, you can get a really good job at a fortune hundredcompanies and make shit ton of money. Yeah. And, uh, that's about it.

Will Szamosszegi (21:34):

I'm, I'm so curious cuz you also,like you have the YC experience and like the experience, you know, in, in theus but I mean, what was it like growing up in Pakistan, your life before yc?Because I feel like that's something that a lot of people don't hear about, uh,especially like when you're from the US or based in, in, in this country andyou just grew up here, you don't really get that whole 360 degree view of whatit's like growing out somewhere outside. Like you're talking about a lot ofopportunities here. Like what are some of those major differences between theUS and, and where you grow up in Pakistan,

Haseem Awan (22:06):

A lot of people say, oh, US isfalling down, like us is basically broke and us is this and us is this. And Isay, man, for someone who was born in us, you guys don't have know that. Howmuch privilege do you have? Right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So it's likeyou grew up in a, in a very niche neighborhood and you're saying, oh my, youknow, iPhone 14 does not have this for, you know, and the iPhone is broken,man. Like, you know, you're among like, if you're, if you're born in us, likeyou're above like maybe a math opportunity. Luckily for me, uh, when I was evenin Pakistan, so I would not like, oh, I came with a hundred dollars in my bank,right? I was doing okay, right. Quit survive by myself, and I, uh, my dad wasfunding my school, but I also did some work on the site to sustain myself.


But at same time, you know, I wouldsay I was rich, but I wasn't like, you know, oh, I just came without $10,right? And I had to sleep on road. No, I slept in a very nice, uh, dorm room atthe same night. So one other thing is that a lot of people obviously havemiscon from Pakistan because they'll say, oh, these, like, you know, when ourPakistan comes up, like, you know, different images go off, right? Like, youknow, and so it's not like that. We actually had a website there, uh, it'scalled Pack wheels and where people will just buy and sell cars. And it wasgetting a lot of popular. So our website is like, um, among the top, maybe likea top dozen websites in Pakistan. We have five or 10 million clients using thewebsite every month or something. It's like auditor trader of Pakistan.


But even Pakistan, like, I think thebiggest challenge is that opportunities that you have to go with. So I'll giveyou a simple example. A lot of my friends used to have a, you cannot have aPayPal in Pakistan. So now it's basically a very, very stupid thing. Like thinkabout it, you can't do a PayPal. Now people have alternative, but it's a smallthing. There are people will not have access to, right? You cannot have acredit card. Very hard to get a credit card there. But now, uh, in us, therewere a lot of times that I would fund my business to my credit card, you know,and Pakistan, I could not do that. There was no such laws of, I, a friend ofmine Kumar, he says, bankruptcy laws in the US are the most strongest one, likethe best one for entrepreneurs bank.


Like, I've never followed abankruptcy or think about it, you take a math amount of risk and you can justwalk away with it. Now we can talk about it's bad or something, but the founderis not level for it. This allows them to take massive risk. But a lot of peoplewho went to bankruptcy, they came back and bounced very well. But think aboutit, if they were all burdened alone and they were end up in jail, you know, wemay not have those companies. And failure is always like, you know, burden inSilicon Valley. Like, you know, you meet a lot of, I would've to hide how manytimes I would've failed, you know, in multiple countries. Not just in US, but alot of like outside Silicon Valley. But Silicon Valley, I would wear it a badgeof honor. I can just walk into a state of man, I failed my, I screwed up.


Right? And how much can you do that?That part of man, very rarely people are very con like even in Canada, and Ireally, we even like, you know, if you leave us Silicon Valley people have arisk tolerance is very low. And, uh, like, it's like crypto, right? We live ina bubble, you know, like we have our own kind of, uh, utopia world that we wantto live in and we want to see this south world will work. The world does notwork accordingly as we think about. So it's just a change of perspective of howthings change. And I think that's what matters the most wherever you live.Like, I go to Pakistan once in a while and whenever I'm there, I just look at thingsdifferently than people look locally because there's a challenge. And I think,oh, there's a, someone will may be willing to pay for this challenge.


It's like privilege to be in us, tobe honest, you know, like just travel, like think about it. So if you have toapply for a visa from Pakistan to us, I think at stake, like 400 days orsomething. Like really? Wow. Think about it. Yeah. And you don't even know thatyou will get a visa or not. So think about it, you have to plan for a vacationalmost 18 months in advance, <laugh>, and you don't even know that youwill get the visa. So like you may be a family of four and you're going and oneperson may not get a visa. And even for like getting a, uh, you know, like anykind of, uh, you know, like travel anywhere in the world. Like I traveledalmost to 10 countries this year, and I'm also Canadian. So, you know, like Ihad to go to a different country and basically take up a passport that willwork better for that country mm-hmm. <affirmative>


And uh, just not have to worry aboutVisa. But if I have to go through like immigration process and going through aPakistani passport, it will take me like maybe 10 application. Everyapplication will cost me $200. It's the impossible to plan those, those things.So, wow. So again, people may not believe that how big opportunity US has, andthe US C is still alive. And I'm example of that, right? I moved to US almostthree years ago. It's not a long time I started this company. Now we have adozen employees. We sell thousands of clients due like, uh, 7, 8, 7, 8 figuredthan revenue. And, uh, I hire people on regular basis, right? And, uh, howamazing this is, like how many countries can this happen? Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (26:36):

I I hadn't even thought about that.Other, uh, just the credit card piece. That's wild. So in other countries, it,you just don't really have access to credit cards and, and like, in terms ofthe bankruptcy piece, like you just, like, you're fully on. It's kind of likestudent loans in the US where you're fully on the hook. You can't, you can'tdeclare bankruptcy

Haseem Awan (26:54):

On 'em. Yeah. Bankruptcy laws in theus Like, like I don't, it looks like people exploited them, but think about it,right? I'm building a company and the company the different entities thanreceived. I can take a risk, I can actually think, but like my, my down risk isreduced massively and similarly when I take a risk. So I think they, these arefantastic laws and they do not exist anywhere in the world. Uh, like they may,I don't know, but I just think, and then language piece, right? Like, uh, yeah,

Will Szamosszegi (27:19):


Haseem Awan (27:19):

Remember when I was written money,yeah. Like I can speak English and people say, how do you, like, someone askedme to, like, how, where do you learn English? Like I say, what do you meanEnglish? Uh, us Pakistan, I have more people who speak English than us are likeprobably Australia and England and entire Europe combined, right?<laugh>, we are the fourth biggest language English speaking nation inthe world. So like language, I don't have any language issues. Like I have anaccent and everything, but like, you know, people don't discriminate me thathow, uh, and I've lived in multiple countries that, oh, you know, I would notbuy because you are this, this, this, this every society of any, but again, I'mjust saying that us is a privilege and for everyone who believes that, uh, usis being broken. Yes, we have challenges here, we have to follow those. Butoverall, I think it's the best country in the world.

Will Szamosszegi (28:05):

Yeah, no, that, that's incredible. Imean, right now it, it's such a crazy time too because you have all these like,massive world events happening, like unprecedented money printing. And I mean,just thinking about it, the US we, we had the benefit of being the reservecurrency here. So a lot of printing, but it's going back into, into our countryin many ways versus other countries. I mean, they were dealing with, you know,covid and everything else without having that, that privilege of being areserve currency. So even just like those little things, like we just trustthat the dollars in our account are going to retain their value. You know,we're not worried about like, like who made a lot of money in Venezuela rightbefore the currency collapsed, you know, like, no, I mean, didn't matter whatdecisions you made. So there is the opportunity in the US still, despite whatprevailing narratives, uh, might be like, we added a lot better than a lot ofother countries.

Haseem Awan (28:58):

I think it's also about like, youknow what you get in like, you know, by default you just believe this is howthe world works. Like you have power. A lot of country in the world do not havepower. Like I'll give you example of San Juan, Puerto Rico, we had almost nopower for two weeks, and we are running on alternative power. So you live inthe US and there's no power, and you do not think for like, every day you wakeup, you don't believe that when you turn on a switch, it'll have power. This isthe type of belief that you have, right? Uh, when you try to run your car,you'll tank the button. It'll basically run, it'll just start. But a lot ofcountries do not have that belief like, you know, you can always come back tous and you'll be safe.


Like people, there's war going onacross the world and uh, you know, like look at Ukraine, man, like, you know,like this war, like a country that you can just go now. You can't like the cowch world change. And um, again, you know, I believe when people get somethingfor granted, like by, you know, by birth, if you're a citizen, you don't takethat seriously. But I personally had to go through a process, you know, like ittook me almost four to five years of process. You know, every person takes likesix, seven years to become a citizen. It's like graduating from school. Likesee how we celebrate our school graduation, we have a pro and then we havegraduation ceremony or something. So for me, that's another graduation ceremonythat we go through. And again, a lot of people do not believe that, uh, howdifficult the process and, and how, you know, how important they in our life toget those things.

Will Szamosszegi (30:22):

Yeah, that's one thing that it, italso kind of, from, from my perspective, I haven't taken any action on thisyet, but it's something interesting that you're hearing with the current globalstate of affairs, like, hey, it might make sense to, you know, have a secondpassport. So it sounds like you, you've got, you know, two passports orcitizenship and multiple areas made three Oh yeah. Canada too. Um, but youknow, that's one of the things where in today's day and age, I haven'tcurrently gone through the process of trying to get another one. But like, I, Imean, I wonder how difficult it is for like a US citizen to go and get other,other passports. I think

Haseem Awan (30:56):

It's, I think it's paid, paid toplay, but obviously the second passport you get has to be as part as us one,right? Yeah. So, um, like I have not explored into that because frankly, like Isaid, man, I think I'm not a, you know, my family will like, you know, are youlike on collection, passport collection mission or something? <laugh>.But for me it was just like I had no other option. Like I, I couldn't enter us.Uh, like, you know, the officer, uh, again, you know, the reason I got my USgreen card and everything was because I wasn't allowed to enter us because theybelieved that I was violation of a visa, which I wasn't. But they said, oh, youcome to us too much. So every time I was pulled into secondary check and uh,one time I was detained and they canceled my visa. So I had no other option butto get a green card. Wow. So yeah, that's another story. But yeah, like, youknow, like you go for a meeting and you tell your plan, oh, I can't enter thecountry.

Will Szamosszegi (31:45):

Oh yeah. That's tough.

Haseem Awan (31:46):

So for me, I, yeah. So for me, I hadno option. What would I've done? And for Canada, I came to study again. That'sanother story because, you know, I had no option, but I had to leave thecountry for some reason. You know, when people have to leave the house, it'snot easy, man. People leave house. And uh, you know, like I trust, like it hasbecome a big touchy topic that, you know, I think refugees and everything. ButI believe that, trust me, man, it's never, no one wants to leave their house.You know? It's not easy to leave your family, your friends where you grew upand just moved to a new country. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (32:17):

I mean you're, you're one of the fewpeople that have been through that. I mean, how, how old were you when youmoved, um, when you made that shift?

Haseem Awan (32:24):

Uh, well I was 21 when I moved toCanada. So it's been almost 13, 14 years. I'm 35 now. I actually turned 35 this

Will Szamosszegi (32:30):

Week. Wow. Well congratulations onthat. <laugh>. Happy birthday. <laugh> birthday. Yeah, I mean, it,it feels like going to another country. Like I've traveled like briefly, likefor work and stuff. I was recently in Vietnam. I went to Portugal. But it, andI, the, the experience of traveling, yes, it was kind of a pain dealing withit, but it was just an inconvenience. You know? It wasn't a question of, oh, amI gonna be able to get in or not? Or, and, or I didn't have to plan like, youknow, months in advance it was, Hey, you know, I can start planning the weekbefore and still make it there. Which is just unlike any other process that Ifeel like everyone else goes through when they're traveling. But it, it almostmakes you think it's like, okay, well yeah, it, it's, it's just kind of crazy liketo think about like all these, all these rules that make it so difficult forcertain countries and so easy for citizens of other countries. I don't reallyunderstand what the bene big benefit is there to doing that. Like why, why it'sset up that

Haseem Awan (33:28):

Way. It's like, like I'll get likecovid, like last year we had cohort, so we had to like, you know, a lot ofpeople complete, oh, I have to get a test. No, again, not getting into a testor something like, you know, not going those like, I'm just saying that peoplehad to get tested and they were panicking. Oh, why do you have to take, it'ssuch an inconvenience, right? <laugh> that I have to get a test andeverything. And for me, like man, I had my, my passport. So, cause I used totravel a lot. I remember I used to go to Japan a lot, so Japan will give you avisa. It's only where her one entry. So, and I had to go literally every monththrough Japan. So I would come back and the day I come back and next day I goto embassy and ask them to send my passport again. They'll send my passport.And so I'll pick up like two days or two days before I go and I, I'll go, so Iused to do this for almost for two years,

Will Szamosszegi (34:17):

<laugh>, oh my god.

Haseem Awan (34:18):

And so backward pages, right? I think50 pages or something. So after like, maybe like two years my password expired,so I'll just give the password back and I'll wait for another passport. And um,so in a way it was kind of a like, you know, a kind of a metal, right? Like mypassword expired because stamps and everything, it's like a good thing to, todo. But mostly it's a reason because one page was totally occupied by the visa.

Will Szamosszegi (34:41):

One page was what

Haseem Awan (34:43):

Occupied. So when you go, they put astamp. So normally people stamp, but if you get a visa, it's a full page. Ifyou get a 24 visas, it's basically 24 pages are gone.

Will Szamosszegi (34:52):

Oh, okay. Yeah. I've never run intosomeone who, who's gone through that experience. So you were traveling once amonth to Japan for for years,

Haseem Awan (35:01):

Yeah, for Thomas for two years.

Will Szamosszegi (35:03):

That is crazy. So I, I mean at bythat point you must ha be like a, a professional traveler. Like, so I, comparedto a lot of the people I know I travel a lot, but I mean, compared to that I'mnot filling up, you know, uh, and like filling up pages, like, you know,filling up booklets. But I mean, one thing that I've realized, and I'm not sureif a lot of people are like this, like are, when you're traveling, are you ableto sleep on planes? Because I feel like I personally, I'm able to sleep onplanes very easily, but a lot of people that I know yeah. Aren't able to sleepon planes, which I feel like, like would make traveling so much worse becauselike when you sleep on a plane, then it's almost like you're teleporting forpart of the trip.

Haseem Awan (35:43):

Yeah, yeah. So I used to sleep a lotand I start taking some medicines too, like, you know, like to manage my sleep.Cause a lot of time I'll go for a couple of days, so I have to manage my sleepaccordingly. But, uh, but it's not healthy to be honest. And so, yeah. But, uh,short answer, I was able to sleep. I'm still able to sleep. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (35:59):

How long's good? Yeah, I, uh, I'll,I'll like, especially when I, I'm going on a long one, I will like takemelatonin before

Haseem Awan (36:08):

<laugh>. Yeah. That's what Iused to take.

Will Szamosszegi (36:09):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just helps.Like, and I, I'm not sure, it's probably not good to, to do long term, but it'slike if you, if you got an 18 hour flight, do you really wanna be awake for 18hours in like economy <laugh>?

Haseem Awan (36:22):

Yeah. Yeah. So the same thing. I usedto do that, uh, like, you know, mad my sleep accordingly and like 10 hour I'llbe sleeping on a 14 hour flight. So it's not a terrible

Will Szamosszegi (36:31):

Yeah, exactly. And, and if I know forexample that I'm gonna be going on a long flight, like I might try and plan it,so I'm like, I do as much as I can before I leave, don't sleep as much and thenjust plan to catch up on, on the plane. But also just like you mentioned howit's not healthy, like just the planning, like making sure that you, you'retaking like maybe like some probiotics or something or emergency, things likethat cuz getting sick when traveling is definitely not fun.

Haseem Awan (36:57):

Yeah. And also like a lot of people,like I read somewhere that um, if traveling was free, you'll never see me homeagain. My trust me, traveling is free. Uh, you know, even like it makes in thebeginning, I dunno how people travel so much. You know, like when I travel Ibasically try to make it as short as possible and I have a family at two, havetwo kids and uh, you know, so I basically wanna make sure I'm home, back homeas soon as possible so I can spend time with my wife, my kids and everything.So like, I don't feel comfortable like by hotels, I don't feel as comfortable Iused to in the past. Mm-hmm. Uh, so it's not, I'll not sleep. I sleep but I donot enjoy hotels.

Will Szamosszegi (37:37):

Yeah, you don't wanna spend too muchtime. Like that's one thing too that I just started noticing is a lot of thetime, like I'll have to travel like alone. Like let's say that there's likesomething that has to get done for work. A lot of the people I work with areolder and so they've got families and I'm still like young, I don't have like afamily or kids. So I'm the one that will gonna travel. But a lot of times Ifind myself like traveling or maybe being like alone in a hotel room and I'mjust like, dang, I do not wanna spend my time alone in a hotel room. I wannalike be doing something or, you know, making sure that I, there's events goingon the entire time when I'm traveling or be home recovering.

Haseem Awan (38:13):

I'll give you a tip on that. I'llgive you two tips on that. So one is obtain a hospital, right? So you basicallytake a book, a room in a hospital and you'll find a lot of people there, youknow, who can hang out if you go to hospital, they have like an events planmm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, and hospital is super cheap. So $20, $30. Soyou can still, if you don't like the hospital, sleep in hospital, you can stayin their hotel. Yeah. Just check in there and just attend all the events. Sothat's one trick, right? Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (38:39):

Interest second.

Haseem Awan (38:40):

Interest interest. Yeah. Secondly,you can actually try house surfing, uh, website. So you can go there and findout that I'm traveling there. And you may find a lot of people, you'll besurprised at how privileged Americans are that if you say I'm coming from us,you would get a lot of people hosting you if you go to wait now. But if you'reVietnam and you wanna come to us, you'll really get a reply.

Will Szamosszegi (39:00):

Wow. I didn't think, and it's justlike random, like crowd, like couch surfing web. Is there like a website, likean Airbnb type equivalent?

Haseem Awan (39:07):

Yeah, it, it's free Airbnb wherepeople will host you for free. Oh,

Will Szamosszegi (39:12):

Okay. I see. Wow. That's

Haseem Awan (39:14):

Interesting. And it's a really goodlife-changing experience. Like I don't have time to do that right now becauselike a lot of my trips are really short. But it's really good because you'llmeet with people who are locals and they will, they'll not like be, they say,oh do you mind sleeping on my couch? Right. And hey, I'm basically going thistomorrow. Do you wanna join my friends? Oh, I'm cooking this food. Do you want,uh, to join? So you live like a, like a local and it's a very good at carsurfing. And then again, uh, the second is this, um, uh, that I told you stilla hostel and you'll enjoy a lot.

Will Szamosszegi (39:46):

That's, that's interesting cuz I feellike you also get the, um, you get an experience that you wouldn't get at ahotel, it sounds like. I mean, when I was traveling in Vietnam, I had thechance there was an event put on by a agora. Um, so it was like certaincompanies, it was almost like speed dating, like matching like with companiesand investors, things like that. Yeah. And um, they put, they were hosting theevent in like a really, really nice hotel there like super, super nice hotel,which, you know, in Vietnam is like the cost of a Norma hotel here in the us.Yeah. I, I felt like I, the only time I was able to like at least ventureoutside of like, the normal like venture out into like what a local might seeis when I was able to walk the streets and go outside, outside of the event.But I, it would've been cool to actually know a local there and been able toget that type of an experience. So

Haseem Awan (40:32):

Interesting. Pick surfing. Yeah.Crowd surfing if you wanna stay with locals, but if you want to have travelwith the people who are starting like you and frankly a lot of first classtravel is not fun. Like if you wanna go wheat, you wanna try out some street

Will Szamosszegi (40:44):

Food. Yeah. <laugh>

Haseem Awan (40:46):

Like, like Marriot everywhere is thesame, you know, you go to any mall are the same, right? Yeah. Uh, you get thesame food, but if you go to Vietnam, na you wanna try something local. Uh, sothat's the only a closer fingers away cuz they're both be gift and, uh, that Ido a a lot of time that if I'm bored and I have <inaudible> I'll just saywho's around and people will just match up.

Will Szamosszegi (41:05):

Wow. Interesting. Yeah, I, uh, Iended up trying to

Haseem Awan (41:09):

Street like Tinder without the fun

Will Szamosszegi (41:11):

<laugh>. Yeah. There, there yougo. For everyone who wants to check out like the <laugh> the couch, surfTinder. Yeah. Um, when I went, I did try the street food, uh, but my like Sasminings president and chief operating officer, he used to travel a lot. He, hedoesn't travel as much anymore, but he was giving me like tips and he gave methe very useful tip of saying, Hey, you, you, we got all this work and yougotta be on for this portion. And then there's like a couple days after where,um, I, the event was over where I was just gonna explore the area and he saiddon't try the street food until after the events because it could kind of messyou up a little bit. Yeah. And, um, yeah, I ended up taking his advice. The,the food was good. Um, I, I'm trying to remember, I can't remember the name ofthis one. This one dish that I thought was so good and I'm blanking on the nameright now, but then I did end up Oh,

Haseem Awan (42:05):

Making, you're making making mehungry now.

Will Szamosszegi (42:07):

<laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. After,after the podcast. Go, go grab some food. No, the food that I make now is justtalking about like, what we were talking about earlier with fitness and, andall of that. I'm, I've been super, super passionate about like healthy eating,fitness, all this stuff for pretty much my entire life and the food that I eatnow, a lot of my like friends will look at me and they'll think it'sdisgusting, but I think it tastes pretty good and it's very, very healthythough. A lot of like alternatives. Like, like a lot of chicken

Haseem Awan (42:37):

<laugh>. I, yeah. So I can saythat about the food and everything man. Like, you know, like if there's nopoint of living a hundred years, if you can't live the way you want to, itdoesn't mean, but it doesn't mean that you should be miserable in 40. Right?Yeah. There's some balance around it that hey, it's more about the quality oflife cause so yeah, about the food, right? Like, I'm not saying you shouldbasically only be eating, um, bad food or, or, but what if you do not enjoy agood steak ever life?

Will Szamosszegi (43:02):

What's the point? You can't be givenmistakes <laugh>.

Haseem Awan (43:04):

Like what, what's the point of havinga life? Yeah. If you can't even enjoy like a nice shake or a night like, youknow, barbecue someday.

Will Szamosszegi (43:10):

Yeah, that's so true. I I think it'slike crazy because I feel like a lot of people when they dive in and realizelike learn all about nutrition and like, like food, different foods, likehealth profiles, I feel like everyone can find a lot healthy foods that theyreally like, that they be super ecstatic having in their diet. But a lot ofpeople just, I feel like will eat certain things thinking they're healthy whenthey're not, and we'll avoid certain things that they like, that actually arevery healthy and that they could just be eating what they like and having.Yeah. And like that's one of the things where like, I love like chicken and Ilove like wraps and things like that, like chicken club wraps, things likethat. So I just substitute like a low calorie wrap equivalent. It tastes theexact same as the normal tortilla except it's got less calorie and more proteinand it tastes the same. And then like with sauces, I love barbecue sauce. Like,I love barbecue sauce so much, but I can't just do dous on a ton of barbecue.So I find an alternative of a brand that I like the taste of the barbecuesauce, which is like no calories, less sugar. So all those like little thingsyou can eat a diet that to you tastes delicious and still, yeah, it, it justmakes the quality of life so much better. And I'm always going, I love steak.Like Absolutely. Uh, what, what, what's your favorite food

Haseem Awan (44:30):

Steak? Obviously you can't competesteak with anything like a good like, you know, medium donut steak with abarbecue sauce on a beautiful day. <laugh> some lemonade.

Will Szamosszegi (44:40):


Haseem Awan (44:41):

You can't eat that any time of thetime of the day. Any, anytime. Like you can have breakfast and no problem. Um,I eat, I like, I like bii. I don't know if you'll try bii.

Will Szamosszegi (44:51):

Oh, what is it

Haseem Awan (44:51):

Called? Like biani. It's like a spicyrice.

Will Szamosszegi (44:55):

Oh, that sounds good.

Haseem Awan (44:57):

Yeah. And then, you know, we havethe, uh, those like shore really good.

Will Szamosszegi (45:03):

Oh yeah. And

Haseem Awan (45:05):

So, and like, you know, obviouslyit's meat and like, you know, some rice and like some, some salad, likewhatever it combination goes with it always work, you know. Um, I'm not a fanof chicken a lot. I prefer lamb, goat and

Will Szamosszegi (45:18):

Beef. Oh, lamb. Yeah, lamb and lambis very good. I'm a big fan of lamb.

Haseem Awan (45:22):

Yeah. Yeah. So these things arereally interesting. But obviously like, you know, I wash my, uh, my, you know,consumption and everything. I don't overeat it. I think, I don't know what eatdid I avoid all the, so I avoid all the sugar mm-hmm. <affirmative>, butI have sugar once in a while, you know? But other than that, like, I think, uh,as I said, like we have to live a life that's natural, right? Like, it doesn'thave to be Oh, but you have to go extreme in any way and life let it, let itgo, man. You enjoy the today.

Will Szamosszegi (45:49):

Yeah. You're not, you're not living,uh, the, the liver king lifestyle. Have you, have you heard of this guy, liverKing? You might, you might not have. He's like this, uh, he's like this fitnessguy. He's super controversial in, um, in the fitness industry. But he's funny.He, he's like known for just like living a, a primal existence and he'll liketake like big bites outta like, just raw liver and that's like his thing. Andhe's just like, just this enormous jack shredded dude who says that he eats abunch of liver and it, I, he's, he's like a big marketer <laugh> in allhonesty. Uh, but yeah. Yeah, he living a crazy, crazy lifestyle.

Haseem Awan (46:27):

<laugh>, and again, will,whatever word for you may not work for me. Whatever word for me may not workfor you. Right. So we have to look at our bodies, our tamina, our genetics, andthen live accordingly. But I just believe that it's not about the, you know,quantit, it's about the quality.

Will Szamosszegi (46:41):

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It'scrazy how much like the, the food you eat affects her energy. I, I'm not sure,have you ever tried like, uh, intermittent fasting or doing fasting of somesort?

Haseem Awan (46:52):

I do. So I actually do, I'm a Muslim,so we fast every year for one month.

Will Szamosszegi (46:58):

Oh, okay. Like a, like a 16 hour,eight 16 window. Yeah. Okay.

Haseem Awan (47:03):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do thatregardless every year. So Interesting. I would say like, like probably seven,8% of my life I'm fasting. Yeah.

Will Szamosszegi (47:13):

<laugh> awesome. And, and whenyou're fasting, like during that, that 16 hour window, I'm assuming you, you'reallowed to drink water, like during that? No,

Haseem Awan (47:21):


Will Szamosszegi (47:22):

Really. Wow. Nothing. So eight hoursis when you do all your eating and drinking and then the other 16 you're noteven allowed to drink.

Haseem Awan (47:30):

Correct. Nothing. You cannot eventouch anything.

Will Szamosszegi (47:32):

Wow, man. That, that's pretty, uh,that's pretty intense. You

Haseem Awan (47:35):

Cannot have like a medicine orsomething. Yeah, so it's generally between sunrise to sunset. So it depends onwhere, which, where normally it comes to 16 hours. Uh, but yeah, you can't eatanything. So yeah,

Will Szamosszegi (47:46):


Haseem Awan (47:46):

I do that. Otherwise I, I will skiplike my lunch from time to time too. I try to eat twice a day and I do fasting,so I don't follow like, you know, those specific formulas. But I just try to,because I know I have friends who have done those 16 days or something, but,uh,

Will Szamosszegi (48:03):

16 days I haven't tried it. LikeYeah. Of just no

Haseem Awan (48:06):

Food. No, just, yeah, I haven't triedit. A lot of friends have tried

Will Szamosszegi (48:11):

It. Wow. That is intense. Yeah, I,yeah, cuz I, so I've been, I've tried a lot of different types of fasting. I'vetried like a dry fast where it's like no water or food for 24 hours. So that'sthe longest dry fast I've done. And then I've also done a three day fast where it'sjust like, no, just water for three days. Um, and then every single day I, Idon't like count the window, but I'll just not eat all day. Um, and then likeeat all end up eating like all my calories in like a four to six hour window.Um, but I'm drinking like a ton of water, drinking coffee the entire time. Andso I feel like when you take out the water element, it's tough because wheneverI'm like hungry, I just chugged a bunch of water. So it kind of like tricks me,I'm like, oh, I'm full. Like, I'm just like a little like tired or lethargic.But when you cut out the water, I feel like that that's a whole, whole new gamethere. So 16 hours, no water per day. It's pretty intense

Haseem Awan (49:08):

And 30 days in a row, so<laugh>, uh, but now I'm used it, right? Like on a regular day I'll get,I feel like I need to eat, but on those days I don't have to do anything. Butwe manage it accordingly. Right? Like you normally sleep during the daysometime or you cheat a bit.

Will Szamosszegi (49:23):

Yeah. But <laugh> yeah. Well,well that's the other thing is, is like I've noticed I get super sleepy when Ieat now. So like I will purposely like wake up, I'll work all day and I know assoon as I take like my first, like as soon as I eat my first meal,productivity's gonna go downhill. So like what I do every day is like, I tryand go as long as I can throughout the day without eating. And then when Ifinally do, um, finally do eat, I'm like, okay, I've accomplished enough today.If stuff comes up, I'll do it. I might, I might do a little bit, but I'm, assoon as I start planning on eating, it's like stuff's not really the, the day'swork has been complete <laugh>. Awesome man. Well I'm seeing that we'recoming up on the time here. I do wanna ask you one more question, but beforeasking it, do you want to just like let everyone know where they can followyou, where they can, uh, connect with the company and, you know, for people whoare trying to protect themselves from, from sim swapping how they can get intouch and and make sure that they get that done?



Haseem Awan (50:20):

Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I, I'll cover abit more on that too. Like on sim swapping, we don't do the sim swapping haveother tracks too, like, you know, location tracking, people buy a call logother data too. Um, we are happy to share more details on that. But yes, theycan secure mobile service. It probably would be like number one, number two,uh, in search resorts. But easiest option if a EFA and our handle is alsoif a EFA and I n i and personally I'm on Twitter hasib, it's my first name, H as W E b, that's my username on Twitter.

Will Szamosszegi (50:53):

Awesome. Sounds good. So last, uh,last question here. Um, what is one belief you hold to be true that themajority of people would disagree with you about?

Haseem Awan (51:04):

Because is the best country in theworld

Will Szamosszegi (51:06):

And what's the, uh, what's therationale for it? And ju also the, the reason why I like to ask this questionis it's, it's interesting cuz you know, you have all these interestingexperience life experiences and things you've done and you've come to whateverthe belief is, it's like this is one of the beliefs that you've come to that ifthe majority of people disagree with, it's like a little insight. It's likethe, the Peter Teal insight. That's why he always asks that question.

Haseem Awan (51:31):

Uh, I think, uh, so let me, us is thebest country to, uh, in the world to build a business. Okay, let me just speakclear cuz when it comes to like, there may be other method where othercountries may be better, but uh, and the reason for that is laws and likeacceptance to, and like again, uh, you mentioned earlier that we can printadmin money and we don't have to pay for the debt. Like how cool this is. Likeyou, it's like your business and you can just run and everyone have tobasically. So if you print more money, you can cause the inflation, but thatinflation does not impact you directly. It inflation impact the entire world,but you are the one who's benefiting from it. So the laws like bankruptcy lawslike credit, credit thing is very, very good. And then like a bill to raisecapital and takes more risk and build something.


And people are okay to take risk onyou when many countries, it may not very famous quote, like, you know, it'smuch easier to make your client your friend than make friend your client. So alot of people will say, oh, I love for you to be my client, but they'll neverbuy a product and the strangers will buy a product. And, and then when you weresuccessful, you'll not, you'll not see those strangers anymore. But you'll havefriends around you who will be there to celebrate your success. But when youwere drowning and you are basically in China, Noel buy your product, theysupport you.

Will Szamosszegi (52:50):

Yeah. Very, very fascinating stuff.Well man, this has been one of the most fascinating conversations we've had. Imean, th this was, this was a lot of fun. We're gonna have to get you back on.And, uh, yeah, thanks again for coming. I appreciate it.

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